going wider?
Author
Discussion

IceBoy

Original Poster:

2,455 posts

251 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Hi all,

My current winter car, which is a E320cdi estate of 2004 vintage currently supports 245-45/17.

If I change to 265-40/17 which keeps the rolling radius & diameter etc within 2%, is there anything else I should be concerned about.

I'm due a tyre change and a bit more grip from the barge would be handy. She happily spins the rears with 500nm of of torque.

Please discus the pros and cons.
Iceboy

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

188 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Friction is a function of weight rather than width. Contact area stays the same (just wider & shorter); are you sure you'll get more grip?

RH

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

187 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
I very much doubt you'll notice any increase in traction with that change of tyre size on a heavy diesel estate. You're more likely to notice a swap to a stickier compound - what brand and type of tyres are currently fitted?

Jacobyte

4,768 posts

272 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
On the plus side: on a smooth surface your lateral grip will be greater.

On the negative side: the wider contact patch and increased unsprung weight may cause some handling issues on uneven surfaces.

But it might work well if it fits within the dynamic working range of your suspension and geometry.

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

295 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
Friction is a function of weight rather than width. Contact area stays the same (just wider & shorter); are you sure you'll get more grip?

RH
This would be true if tyre grip worked by friction alone rather than chemical bonding and if tyres didn't have structure inside them to stop the contact patch changing shape like a balloon.

There is an excellent page of well written but inaccurate and hoplessly over-simplified bilge on the Tyre Bible website, which is not any more accurate than any other bible. I keep seeing bits of it regurgitated all over the internet.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

276 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Caulkhead said:
I very much doubt you'll notice any increase in traction with that change of tyre size on a heavy diesel estate. You're more likely to notice a swap to a stickier compound - what brand and type of tyres are currently fitted?
I agree. Also, you can play about with tyre pressures (within sensible limits) to see what gives you the best compromise of grip vs fuel economy.

jon-

16,534 posts

246 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
To answer the OP

- you'd need to be mindful of insurance implications to non-standard tyre sizes
- you'd want to make sure a 265 would sit comfortable on your current wheel with (if you advise I can tell you)
- you'd need to ensure there won't be any suspension / arch rubbing due to the wider width, though with a fairly small change I'm sure you won't have a problem

As others have said, you'll get more of a grip difference changing tyre brands than you will tyre sizes.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

188 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
doogz said:
The contact area might stay the same, depending on what tyres you fit.
Same weight, same pressure, same contact area.

RH

john2443

6,544 posts

241 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
As it's the winter car wouldn't it be better to have narrower, winter tyres?

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

188 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
doogz said:
Justify that.
Explain it.
eg:
1400 lb car.
35 psi tyres

1400/35=40 square inches contact area. No other variables.

RH

TA14

14,332 posts

288 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
john2443 said:
As it's the winter car wouldn't it be better to have narrower, winter tyres?
A 225/55/16 would probably be best. Check handbook.

TA14

14,332 posts

288 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
eg:
1400 lb car.
35 psi tyres

1400/35=40 square inches contact area. No other variables.
Wow. That would only be true if the tyre were like a baloon with no strength but the rubber has strength to hold it's shape and then there's reinforcement.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

188 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
FPWM but do you not inflate your tyres?

(I accept the tyre strength point, though.)

RH

Edited by Rovinghawk on Tuesday 27th November 17:28

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

295 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
doogz said:
The contact area might stay the same, depending on what tyres you fit.
Same weight, same pressure, same contact area.

RH
It's just those three variables?

So the structure of the tyre doesn't do anything?

So if I get a car, and reduce the pressure of the tyre to zero, does the contact area become infinite? Or is the situation more complex than that?

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

188 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Captain Muppet said:
So if I get a car, and reduce the pressure of the tyre to zero, does the contact area become infinite? Or is the situation more complex than that?
It's more complex- the steel/alloy in the rim gets involved, AIUI.

RH

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

295 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
eg:
1400 lb car.
35 psi tyres

1400/35=40 square inches contact area. No other variables.

RH
Awesome!

For a flat tyre: 1400/0 = infinity. If there was a flat tyre anywhere in the universe we'd be able to touch it, all of us, all at once.

That can't be right can it?

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

295 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
eg:
1400 lb car.
35 psi tyres

1400/35=40 square inches contact area. No other variables.

RH
Rovinghawk said:
It's more complex- the steel/alloy in the rim gets involved, AIUI.

RH
FFS.

IceBoy

Original Poster:

2,455 posts

251 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
It is a strange one as the I currently have 245/45-17 all round but some cars have staggered set-up with 265/40-17 at the rear only?
IceBoy

98elise

32,647 posts

191 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
Captain Muppet said:
Rovinghawk said:
eg:
1400 lb car.
35 psi tyres

1400/35=40 square inches contact area. No other variables.

RH
Awesome!

For a flat tyre: 1400/0 = infinity. If there was a flat tyre anywhere in the universe we'd be able to touch it, all of us, all at once.

That can't be right can it?
The calculation is only true while there is enough pressure and area to support the weight of the car.

jon-

16,534 posts

246 months

Tuesday 27th November 2012
quotequote all
IceBoy said:
It is a strange one as the I currently have 245/45-17 all round but some cars have staggered set-up with 265/40-17 at the rear only?
IceBoy
Ignoring the physics bickering for a second, it might be that the previous owner of your car (assuming there was one) fitted the same size all round on staggered wheels, or your car was spec'd with wheels which don't come as staggered.

If the tyres are the same all round, but the wheels are staggered, you might be able to tell just by looking at them (assuming you have the same tyres front and back) - if the rear is wider the tyre will look smaller on the wheel, and the front will look comparatively pinched.