Car Starting/Running Problem - Urgent

[rstanyer]

Hi, to try and get the best response for my problem I'm going to explain it from the start.

I had a P reg VW Polo 1.4cl which was playing up, gears wouldnt stay in, engine was popping when starting, etc. so I decided to get another runner and ended up buying exactly the same car just a little newer.

The new car is a V reg VW Polo 1.4cl which I've now had for around 2 weeks, in this 2 weeks I've probably drove it for about 3 days. When i got the car, it wasn't starting and the guy said it was because he went through a puddle on the M1 and it cut out but he dried everything out and it's been running fine - he sprayed some easy start in the air filter and it fired up, felt like a nice drive aswell.

After driving the car home that night, I had work in the morning but when I went to start the car there was power but it wasn't firing up. The battery was getting slightly dead so I rolled it down the hill and attempted to bump start it 4 times - on the 4th time it JUST about worked it was spluttering but kept running and after 10 minutes it was fine.

It drove OK for a day or two but i could feel a slight misfire and losing power when i was accelerating, just felt like it was lagging behind and not going anywhere fast. This problem rapidly deteriorated over the space of that day and it went from the slight misfire and power loss to when i was pulling off from roundabouts/junctions it was hardly going and spluttering and trying to stall but then it would start going.

It then went from that to cutting out completely. It would start up fine and idle "ok" (it was moving up and down a little) but as soon as i touched the accelerator it would cut off. If i very slowly pressed the accelerator down it would rev up to 5000 and be fine but as soon as i pulled off or accelerated normally it just cut out.

I left it overnight, someone came the next day and said the main HT lead wasn't properly on. They put on the one from my old car and it ran like new! Then i noticed a slight misfire still but it ran nicely. This lasted for another day...

After running for that day, it did the same thing again, again i left it overnight and went back the next morning - still wouldn't go. Due to the person i bought it from saying the wiring block in the engine got wet i undid it, dried out the small amount of moisture that was on it and put it back together. Again - worked absolutely fine.

1 day later, same thing AGAIN. This time however the temperature gauge was at 110c although the air coming from the vents wasn't particularly hot. I gave up - left it overnight again.

The next day, got towed to a garage - the temperature guage had stuck at 110 but it does move slightly up/down so its not completely jammed.

The mechanic has had it now for 5 days and charged 8 hours labour and nothing. I've lost my trust in him as he hasn't changed anything really with relevance except the set of leads. And he was saying he was going to replace the dials because the temp gauge is stuck and it's making the engine cut off because it's reading too hot. I'm no mechanic but the engine surely doesn't read from the gauge, its the other way round?

So now I would just like some ideas on what I can attempt to swap from the old car to this (or maybe new parts) to try get this thing running - theres only so many 20 mile taxi's I can get to work without going bankrupt & a week is long enough.

Thanks!

[john2443]

I'd be surprised if the temp gauge was causing it, 110 isn't overheating significantly.

I don't know exactly what the ignition system's like on those but is sounds like the coil pack or whatever the equivalent is. I'd swop one item of the ignition circuit at a time fomr the other car and see which one fixes it.

<Hindsight> I wouldn't have bought a car that had starting problems unless I was pretty confident I knew what it was/ could fix it myself </hindsight>

[Oldandslow]

Had similar with my ex's Polo. On advice from the owners forum I soaked the throttle body with carb cleaner. Something to do with the idle control valve gunking up. For a proper fix it needs talen off and cleaned or replaced but carb cleaner did the job for over a year.

[Sump Scraper]

My mk3 golf with a similar engine used to do the same, turns out there was a hairline crack in the coilpack that would let moisture in and would cause loads of issues like you described.

I just sprayed the pack with GT85 oil, (wd40 would prob be just as good) and never had the problem since.

[rstanyer]

Sump Scraper said:

My mk3 golf with a similar engine used to do the same, turns out there was a hairline crack in the coilpack that would let moisture in and would cause loads of issues like you described.

I just sprayed the pack with GT85 oil, (wd40 would prob be just as good) and never had the problem since.

As a couple of people have said, with the coilpack issue, can this be intermittent? So it can run absolutely fine for a day and then the next day it will struggle to start and just bog out? How would i go about changing this? (I can swap straight from the old car to see if it makes a difference)

[littleredrooster]

The first thing I would do is swap everything relating to the HT system over from the old car (assuming it was working OK on there.) Plugs, leads, distributor, coil etc.

[ikarl]

Definitely sounds like a HT issue to me...... dry out or swap over all the leads/plugs/coilpacks(if it has them) and distributor/rotor arm

sounds like a big job but is fairly simple to do

[Fizpop]

Just another vote for a mucky inlet. As mentioned it gets clogged over time, making the car die and stuggle to rev under load. There are guides on the net about cleaning it out, but a replacement is the best fix. You ought to be able to swop over from the one on your old car, or ask your mechanic to do this for you. I think it's this due to what you said about the chap putting easystart through to get it running.

You might also consider the fuel pump in the tank or the fuel filter which is in front of the rear drivers side wheel being clogged. Fuel starvation generally is another possibility from the symptoms you describe.

If your mechanic has billed 8 hours for swapping leads then I'd get it back sharpish and find another.

Plugs and leads are a good starting point, so make sure they're all changed first. Cars aint that complicated, they need fuel, spark and air to run. Start there and you'll find the problem.

[rstanyer]

Fizpop said:

Just another vote for a mucky inlet. As mentioned it gets clogged over time, making the car die and stuggle to rev under load. There are guides on the net about cleaning it out, but a replacement is the best fix. You ought to be able to swop over from the one on your old car, or ask your mechanic to do this for you. I think it's this due to what you said about the chap putting easystart through to get it running.

You might also consider the fuel pump in the tank or the fuel filter which is in front of the rear drivers side wheel being clogged. Fuel starvation generally is another possibility from the symptoms you describe.

If your mechanic has billed 8 hours for swapping leads then I'd get it back sharpish and find another.

Plugs and leads are a good starting point, so make sure they're all changed first. Cars aint that complicated, they need fuel, spark and air to run. Start there and you'll find the problem.

It's always felt fuel related to me from the bogging out when driving to the cutting out when i put foot on accelerator. I thought it could of been fuel pump because someone said that matches the symptom of when i push really slowly on the accelerator it would rev without cutting out and they said if fuel filters blocked it would do that because your slowly increasing the pressure to bypass the blockage.

Yeah, not sure what he's done i know he's changed all the leads but thats all i am aware of. The last i heard he was 'attempting' to remove the speed dials to replace them because the temp gauge being stuck all the way right apparently was forcing the engine to cut out (doesn't sound possible to me)...

[Grenoble]

Recover car... get new mechanic...

You are writing him a blank cheque.

[Sump Scraper]

rstanyer said:

Sump Scraper said:

My mk3 golf with a similar engine used to do the same, turns out there was a hairline crack in the coilpack that would let moisture in and would cause loads of issues like you described.

I just sprayed the pack with GT85 oil, (wd40 would prob be just as good) and never had the problem since.

As a couple of people have said, with the coilpack issue, can this be intermittent? So it can run absolutely fine for a day and then the next day it will struggle to start and just bog out? How would i go about changing this? (I can swap straight from the old car to see if it makes a difference)

Yes it can be an intermittent problem, if its a nice dry day out my car was fine, any moisture in the air at all and the car would fail to start, miss fire, down on power, just depends how bad the crack is on the coilpack, i'd start by just spraying your old coil pack with a fine mist of water to see if your problems get worse and if they do you know the culprit.
Very easy to change but all i done was give my coilpack a good dose of gt85 and has been perfect since, i even have a spare coilpack but havent needed to fit it yet.
Its quite possible your coilpack on your other polo is the same, if they look similar then its just a straight swap.

[rstanyer]

Sump Scraper said:

Yes it can be an intermittent problem, if its a nice dry day out my car was fine, any moisture in the air at all and the car would fail to start, miss fire, down on power, just depends how bad the crack is on the coilpack, i'd start by just spraying your old coil pack with a fine mist of water to see if your problems get worse and if they do you know the culprit.
Very easy to change but all i done was give my coilpack a good dose of gt85 and has been perfect since, i even have a spare coilpack but havent needed to fit it yet.
Its quite possible your coilpack on your other polo is the same, if they look similar then its just a straight swap.

Yeah now i think about it, it may have been happening more when it was raining, infact if i recall correctly (bad memory lol) every time it has been raining.

The things I'm going to try so far:

Spark Plugs
Coilpack
Fuel Filter
ECT Sensor
Thermometer (As the gauge is stuck all the way at max?)

[rstanyer]

Forgot to say as well when this problem occurs a strong smell of fuel is present.

[Sump Scraper]

rstanyer said:

Sump Scraper said:

Yes it can be an intermittent problem, if its a nice dry day out my car was fine, any moisture in the air at all and the car would fail to start, miss fire, down on power, just depends how bad the crack is on the coilpack, i'd start by just spraying your old coil pack with a fine mist of water to see if your problems get worse and if they do you know the culprit.
Very easy to change but all i done was give my coilpack a good dose of gt85 and has been perfect since, i even have a spare coilpack but havent needed to fit it yet.
Its quite possible your coilpack on your other polo is the same, if they look similar then its just a straight swap.

Yeah now i think about it, it may have been happening more when it was raining, infact if i recall correctly (bad memory lol) every time it has been raining.

The things I'm going to try so far:

Spark Plugs
Coilpack
Fuel Filter
ECT Sensor
Thermometer (As the gauge is stuck all the way at max?)

Dont change all them things until you check the pack first,just wasting money you don't need to spend!
The smell of fuel is because its not igniting because the coilpack isn't sending the signal to spark because the moisture inside it creating havac with the internals of the pack.
Defo check the coilpack first would be my advice.

[rstanyer]

Sump Scraper said:

Dont change all them things until you check the pack first,just wasting money you don't need to spend!
The smell of fuel is because its not igniting because the coilpack isn't sending the signal to spark because the moisture inside it creating havac with the internals of the pack.
Defo check the coilpack first would be my advice.

Yeah I'm going to do them 1 by 1 and see what diff. they make, shouldn't cost much as I can take parts from the old one.

I will take your advice try the coil pack first.

[Fizpop]

rstanyer said:

Forgot to say as well when this problem occurs a strong smell of fuel is present.

You've answered your own question with this statement. If you can smell fuel most likely it's spark (fuel not being burnt)or a partially blocked inlet (fuel not getting into the engine).

Find out where the smell is coming from. Under the bonnet or out the exhaust?

[rstanyer]

Fizpop said:

You've answered your own question with this statement. If you can smell fuel most likely it's spark (fuel not being burnt)or a partially blocked inlet (fuel not getting into the engine).

Find out where the smell is coming from. Under the bonnet or out the exhaust?

I always miss out the important parts... I can't check it right now (at work, and can't really get the car till tommorow) but wouldn't it be quite hard to tell where the smell is coming from? I could smell it when i was sitting in the car.

[Sump Scraper]

rstanyer said:

Sump Scraper said:

Dont change all them things until you check the pack first,just wasting money you don't need to spend!
The smell of fuel is because its not igniting because the coilpack isn't sending the signal to spark because the moisture inside it creating havac with the internals of the pack.
Defo check the coilpack first would be my advice.

Yeah I'm going to do them 1 by 1 and see what diff. they make, shouldn't cost much as I can take parts from the old one.

I will take your advice try the coil pack first.

Ah that's right, handy having a spare car for parts......

Let us know if you resolve the issue, seems like your mechanic is well over charging you for labour, I don't know how handy you are with spanners but all the bits you are thinking of changing are very easy to do at home, save some cash as well

[rstanyer]

Sump Scraper said:

Ah that's right, handy having a spare car for parts......

Let us know if you resolve the issue, seems like your mechanic is well over charging you for labour, I don't know how handy you are with spanners but all the bits you are thinking of changing are very easy to do at home, save some cash as well

Thing is the mechanics sorted problems for me in the past but this is the only time it's been a problem that could be one of multiple things so I'm not sure if he's kinda gave up trying to diagnose it - I just can't get my head around why he would try replace the speed dials.

Would you say the thermo gauge being stuck all the way to the right (only when ignitions on) is a separate problem in its own?

Yeah me & a friend are going to change over the parts, can't afford any more labour lol.

[Sump Scraper]

rstanyer said:

Thing is the mechanics sorted problems for me in the past but this is the only time it's been a problem that could be one of multiple things so I'm not sure if he's kinda gave up trying to diagnose it - I just can't get my head around why he would try replace the speed dials.

Would you say the thermo gauge being stuck all the way to the right (only when ignitions on) is a separate problem in its own?

Yeah me & a friend are going to change over the parts, can't afford any more labour lol.

I think it's probably 2 separate issues you are having.

Does the gauge go straight to max temp even when the engines cold and switched off? just the ignition on?
Could be a dodgy temp sensor but that usually makes the car hard to start when either hot or cold if its out of sync.
could be a bad earth or broken wire going into the speedo housing or it could be indeed a faulty gauge, could you swap out the speedo from you old polo to check? not sure if they are the same but it might be worth checking to see if the temp gauge is working correctly then you'll know its the cluster rather than something else.