Renault : where did it all go wrong?
Discussion
Reading the Clio thread has really got me thinking and stirred up the juices.
I found myself thinking back about cars in my past. I remember my Dad had a Renault 16. I loved that car, with its huge squashy bench seats.
He also had a Renault 30 - a large, hatchback french luxo-barge, a bit like a 1970s Audi A7, but with a gallic shrug, a soft ride and lot of velour.
One of the cars I owned which I remember most fondly was my R19 16V. Deep blue, I had the facelifted version with the air scoop on the bonnet. I loved that car. I truly learned to hoon in that car. It was the first car I took to Europe, with a stick-on GB plate and dishonourable intentions when I took my girlfriend for a dirty week away in Normandy.
Happy days.
But what the hell has happened to Renault since then? Oh my dear lord, if you take a look at the range now it is a disaster. Many of the cars they used to sell have been removed from the UK market. Market sectors that Renault created single handed (like the MPV with the Espace ) have been given up and handed over to competitors.
To paraphrase my post in the Clio thread, the story of Renault reads like this to me:
>Practically invented the modern family hatchback with cars like the R16 back in the 70's.
>Genuinely Invented the MPV. Lost their way with lame products, gifted the sector to their competitors.
>Tried to compete in the massively successful small SUV market with the Koleos. When was the last time you saw one?
>Had a decent offering in the vanilla saloon and hatch market with the Laguna. Competition moved on. Renault did not.
>Have great sporting brands in Alpine and Gordini, but singularly failed to exploit them.
>Had a really nice little car that a generation loved, from the Renault 5 in the 70's all the way to the Clio, with Papa and Nicole and healthy sales all over Europe. Competitors moved on. Renault didn't.
Over the last 5-10 years, Renault management have successfully replaced all of their previously successful lines with dull, unimaginative versions that the car buying public has pretty much rejected.
Only thing at Renault that actually works is their JV with Nissan and , of course, Dacia. The rest is a disaster.
It is a shame. I used to love Renaults.
It seems that Renault made every wrong decision that was possible while, at the same time, companies like VAG and the Koreans made all the right decisions.
The F1 involvement is also a high point. But it is ultimately worthless because there is little halo effect toward cars that anyone apparently wants to buy in any large numbers.
I fear that if it was not for Government control and French socialism, Renault would have disappeared long ago.
It is a sad state of affairs..
Or am I wrong? I wish I was, but the lack of competitive Renaults in the most popular market segments makes me think I am not.
Am I wrong? Is Renault ever going to recover?
I found myself thinking back about cars in my past. I remember my Dad had a Renault 16. I loved that car, with its huge squashy bench seats.
He also had a Renault 30 - a large, hatchback french luxo-barge, a bit like a 1970s Audi A7, but with a gallic shrug, a soft ride and lot of velour.
One of the cars I owned which I remember most fondly was my R19 16V. Deep blue, I had the facelifted version with the air scoop on the bonnet. I loved that car. I truly learned to hoon in that car. It was the first car I took to Europe, with a stick-on GB plate and dishonourable intentions when I took my girlfriend for a dirty week away in Normandy.
Happy days.
But what the hell has happened to Renault since then? Oh my dear lord, if you take a look at the range now it is a disaster. Many of the cars they used to sell have been removed from the UK market. Market sectors that Renault created single handed (like the MPV with the Espace ) have been given up and handed over to competitors.
To paraphrase my post in the Clio thread, the story of Renault reads like this to me:
>Practically invented the modern family hatchback with cars like the R16 back in the 70's.
>Genuinely Invented the MPV. Lost their way with lame products, gifted the sector to their competitors.
>Tried to compete in the massively successful small SUV market with the Koleos. When was the last time you saw one?
>Had a decent offering in the vanilla saloon and hatch market with the Laguna. Competition moved on. Renault did not.
>Have great sporting brands in Alpine and Gordini, but singularly failed to exploit them.
>Had a really nice little car that a generation loved, from the Renault 5 in the 70's all the way to the Clio, with Papa and Nicole and healthy sales all over Europe. Competitors moved on. Renault didn't.
Over the last 5-10 years, Renault management have successfully replaced all of their previously successful lines with dull, unimaginative versions that the car buying public has pretty much rejected.
Only thing at Renault that actually works is their JV with Nissan and , of course, Dacia. The rest is a disaster.
It is a shame. I used to love Renaults.
It seems that Renault made every wrong decision that was possible while, at the same time, companies like VAG and the Koreans made all the right decisions.
The F1 involvement is also a high point. But it is ultimately worthless because there is little halo effect toward cars that anyone apparently wants to buy in any large numbers.
I fear that if it was not for Government control and French socialism, Renault would have disappeared long ago.
It is a sad state of affairs..
Or am I wrong? I wish I was, but the lack of competitive Renaults in the most popular market segments makes me think I am not.
Am I wrong? Is Renault ever going to recover?
It was when Marcel got killed, it was all down hill after that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marcel_Renault_1...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marcel_Renault_1...
If you follow what Fiat are up to, the misfortunes of PSA Citroen, and various other ongoing topics like the ACEA spat between the Fiat and VW CEOs, one thing becomes clear.
The European market for mid-price cars is dead. Budget is alive, premium is alive, mid-price is dead.
This is where Renault live, and it sucks to be them.
The European market for mid-price cars is dead. Budget is alive, premium is alive, mid-price is dead.
This is where Renault live, and it sucks to be them.
toppstuff said:
>Tried to compete in the massively successful small SUV market with the Koleos. When was the last time you saw one?
Maybe if they had done more research and chosen another name? Once it was pointed out that "koleos" means "testicle" in Greek, every time we saw one we pointed, laughed and shouted "Couille!". I don't think it helped the sales in France........ toppstuff said:
>Had a decent offering in the vanilla saloon and hatch market with the Laguna. Competition moved on. Renault did not.
A friend who works for then told me that it was the previous model of the Laguna that really did for Renault - it was so unreliable that even the french with their nationalistic ability to turn a blind eye started deserting the marque. Undersized suspension components, EGR valves that damaged turbos that then lunched engines, etc.He also said that they lost money on all their large cars, and recently on the small cars too. The Megane was the only one that they were making money on due to the number of chassis sold. I think that only route to survival is to take the volume factories out of France to cheaper production centres, as per the Dacia. However, this is not really an option as the state will not let them do it.
It went wrong back in 2004 when the local renault dealer showed no interest in an enquiry for a Renaultsport model and wittered on about boring NCAP, family transport and Scenics. I bought a Honda Type R.
In the 70s, I loved Renaults. Loved the 4, 5 and 17 TS particularly. Now they are all very ugly blobs with nothing left of interest bar the Renaultsport models, spoilt by the looks.
In the 70s, I loved Renaults. Loved the 4, 5 and 17 TS particularly. Now they are all very ugly blobs with nothing left of interest bar the Renaultsport models, spoilt by the looks.
toppstuff said:
He also had a Renault 30 - a large, hatchback french luxo-barge, a bit like a 1970s Audi A7, but with a gallic shrug, a soft ride and lot of velour.
Now we're talking.30 porn.
Probably the only non-Renaultsport Renault I actually fancy. Same goes for the Peugeot 604 - big, french and comfy.
As for where Renault are now, I think doomed covers it. As said above, mid range sales are dead, and very shortly their home market will be showing severe signs of turning greek.
The megane and laguna didn't really help their reputation either.
Replacing the previous Megane which looked like nothing else with a Megane that looked like everything else was a big mistake. If you get people used to different designs and shapes, don't go back to a dull, soft shape like the competition. Honda were wise to keep the spaceship styling for the current Civic, as anything more mainstream would probably have lost conquest sales of the previous model.
I've just looked through their time line and found only 3 cars I liked.
The 2CV rival the 4 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_4 wouldn't have one but a great car for French peasants.
The executive class hatchback the 16 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_16 first car in Europe with central locking.
And only because I had a matchbox model of it and I quite like the design the 15/17 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_15/17 (this may have been a crap car in real life though).
Pre-1960s cars have a style and class all of their own but do nothing for me, like the 4CV which looks like a cross between a Morris Minor and a Beetle.
The 2CV rival the 4 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_4 wouldn't have one but a great car for French peasants.
The executive class hatchback the 16 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_16 first car in Europe with central locking.
And only because I had a matchbox model of it and I quite like the design the 15/17 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_15/17 (this may have been a crap car in real life though).
Pre-1960s cars have a style and class all of their own but do nothing for me, like the 4CV which looks like a cross between a Morris Minor and a Beetle.
Gallic Scrap
The only car worse than a Renault is a Citroen
My Mrs had a 52 Plate Laguna Dynamique - the thing was amazingly comfortable with half leather sports seats and electric everything but must have been built by a garlic-munching chimp - it spent more time in the garage being fixed than on the road - literally one thing after another went wrong with it. The gearbox shat itself at about 70k and that was the final straw.
I've never bought a French car and after that experience I never would.
The only car worse than a Renault is a Citroen
My Mrs had a 52 Plate Laguna Dynamique - the thing was amazingly comfortable with half leather sports seats and electric everything but must have been built by a garlic-munching chimp - it spent more time in the garage being fixed than on the road - literally one thing after another went wrong with it. The gearbox shat itself at about 70k and that was the final straw.
I've never bought a French car and after that experience I never would.
trashbat said:
I've just had a quick look at their financial reports, and they're not dead yet: half their volume is outside Europe, and Dacia may be their redemption, in that a lot of countries they now sell in are comparatively poor.
Also their 'alliance' with Nissan is an almost 45% holding of Nissan (effectively control) vs only 15% Nissan shares in Renault.BFG TERRANO said:
From about 2000 on they produced crap. Quality and reliability were long gone. Re sale values fell sharply.
No one wanted poor quality products they couldn't trust that would be worth about 70% less in 3 years.
This basically.No one wanted poor quality products they couldn't trust that would be worth about 70% less in 3 years.
In the early 2000s they had a really strong lineup including Clio, Megane, Laguna, Espace, Vel Satis, Avantime. All very beautiful and distinctly French, with the last four intended to move Renault upmarket. But three things went wrong:
1) The quality and reliability was so atrocious that many customers swore never to touch Renault again. Particularly on Laguna and Espace which AFAIK shared many components.
2) The Avantime and Vel Satis were too niche for the UK public (although now looking like future classics). I suspect they lost loads of money on those.
3) The dealers were not up to scratch. Not a problem when customers never see them in between services. Big problem when the customers are virtually living in the dealership.
As a result customers left them in droves. Renault didn't seem to care enough about addressing the quality issues.
Ghosn came along and tried to raise the quality bar, partly through the Nissan tie-up. He fixed the problems with the Espace. And the latest Laguna was a really good car IMHO. Ghosn acknowledged the previous problems and said "all we can ask is for customers to come and try it, to give us another chance". But too few did.
So rather than lose even more money, they cut the range heavily including Laguna and Espace, and focussed on small cars and electric cars. The latter is a brave move that may or may not pay off.
I think the quality is now there, but unfortunately the range is not as exciting as it used to be. Dacia may prove to be their saviour. Ironically, the Romanian budget brand is taking Renault back to its roots.
Their van & truck division seems to be doing OK though - see loads of their artics on the road and some of the smaller commercials like the electric Kangoo are genuinely innovative. My employer has one as an estate hack, given the mileages these vans do on site, battery power makes perfect sense. Interestingly, in the mid-sized van sector, you see more of the Vauxhall & Nissan badged equivalents of the Master & Trafic than you do the Renault.
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