Are PSA Peugeot Citroen doomed?
Discussion
They do seem to be in a lot of trouble at the minute.
http://www.just-auto.com/comment/is-psa-doomed_id1...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jan/09/peu...
http://www.businessinsider.com/secret-french-plan-...
There shutting down the Aulnay plant, 8000 jobs going there alone. Rumours of them selling Faurecia (Parts company). The French government gave them a €7 billion bail out few weeks ago, and now there financial arm will sign for another £4.3bn of loans as part of an €18.5bn debt rescue plan in the next few days.
They are burning through cash at a rate of 200 million euros a month at the minute, and have been doing so for a least a year.
Do you think they will go the way of Saab, or will the French government keep propping them up?
Personally I like Peugeot's and Citroen's of old, and it seems that they are making some quite good stuff at the minute (for the first time in years i.e, the 205 is 30 years old this year, the 106 22 years and the 306 came out 20 years ago), it would be sad to see them go.
http://www.just-auto.com/comment/is-psa-doomed_id1...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jan/09/peu...
http://www.businessinsider.com/secret-french-plan-...
There shutting down the Aulnay plant, 8000 jobs going there alone. Rumours of them selling Faurecia (Parts company). The French government gave them a €7 billion bail out few weeks ago, and now there financial arm will sign for another £4.3bn of loans as part of an €18.5bn debt rescue plan in the next few days.
They are burning through cash at a rate of 200 million euros a month at the minute, and have been doing so for a least a year.
Do you think they will go the way of Saab, or will the French government keep propping them up?
Personally I like Peugeot's and Citroen's of old, and it seems that they are making some quite good stuff at the minute (for the first time in years i.e, the 205 is 30 years old this year, the 106 22 years and the 306 came out 20 years ago), it would be sad to see them go.
re the psaI really don't think the French government will ever let them go under.
Be interesting to know which company is losing the most money, be it either Peugeot or Citroen. I have a feeling it's Peugeot as Citroen's (especially the DS3) seem to be selling rather well.
ETA: Just read the articles and they do seem to be centred around the fact that it is at Peugeot where the money is being lost.
Be interesting to know which company is losing the most money, be it either Peugeot or Citroen. I have a feeling it's Peugeot as Citroen's (especially the DS3) seem to be selling rather well.
ETA: Just read the articles and they do seem to be centred around the fact that it is at Peugeot where the money is being lost.
Edited by TheTurbonator on Thursday 10th January 21:21
I did a presentation on the structure of the auto industry for one of my modules last year and one of the students asked which solution did I think was better between the French bailout and GM/Chrysler's bankruptcy and restructuring as a leaner and more efficient organisation.
I said the GM-Chrysler solution, though painful at the time will ensure they grow and prosper and that the French will either go a similar way or cease to exist in the next decade or so.
I wonder how right my stab in the dark will prove to be. The French govt probably won't let them die, but surely there's a limit to the bailouts?
I said the GM-Chrysler solution, though painful at the time will ensure they grow and prosper and that the French will either go a similar way or cease to exist in the next decade or so.
I wonder how right my stab in the dark will prove to be. The French govt probably won't let them die, but surely there's a limit to the bailouts?
Jimbo. said:
Too big to fail. For France, anyway. And I for one hope they stay afloat...somehow...if not for offering am alternative to the grey, Teutonic norm, then simply for the poor b
ds that'll lose their jobs. It'll utterly destroy towns/cities like Mulhouse, etc.
Does that mean they'll effectively become nationalised?ds that'll lose their jobs. It'll utterly destroy towns/cities like Mulhouse, etc.With Europe's car market still in the toilet with no signs of improving coupled to the overcapacity issues, they can't really go on as a business without radically changing.
One thing I have to say about the Germans is that they are very bloody good at the business of building and selling cars.
It's not only the french gov that are doing their bit; it's the whole population of France too. They are ever-loyal to Citroen, Peugeot and Renault. They buy the whole range. They spend the equivalent of what we'd pay for a brand new Audi or Bm (brands of which the french just aren't interested in), on top-spec C4 Picassos and those funny looking Peugeot mpv-come-soft roader things. Full marks to them really.
ajb85 said:
It's not only the french gov that are doing their bit; it's the whole population of France too. They are ever-loyal to Citroen, Peugeot and Renault. They buy the whole range. They spend the equivalent of what we'd pay for a brand new Audi or Bm (brands of which the french just aren't interested in), on top-spec C4 Picassos and those funny looking Peugeot mpv-come-soft roader things. Full marks to them really.
As do the Germans. Bmw, vw, Merc, Audi. Very rare you see anythin else.Is this where the UK went wrong?
PSA have for years though been churning out comparatively crap cars so it's no surprise they're struggling. Ok there's a few gooduns in there but they're still poorly built, unreliable, and have poor durability. There's a reason why you don't see many old French cars around compared to the likes of old German or Japanese metal.
Outside of Europe, they don't sell all that well, and I can't for the life of me figure out why they have zero presence in the US market? The US market is all about downsizing at the moment so PSA are missing out on a huge chunk of the action that the Japanese and Koreans are all over.
Outside of Europe, they don't sell all that well, and I can't for the life of me figure out why they have zero presence in the US market? The US market is all about downsizing at the moment so PSA are missing out on a huge chunk of the action that the Japanese and Koreans are all over.
BFG TERRANO said:
Is this where the UK went wrong?
The love of premium is the problem really - As much as they may be owned by others, the success of Jaguar, Range Rover, Bentley, Rolls Royce in recent years shows that although people have less loyalty there's a reasonable demand for it. The main killer for mainstream British cars, I reckon, boils down to how the badges got devalued in the '70s and '80s (eg. putting the Rover name on the Metro) & the love of everyone here boiling down everything a manufacturer does into a sentence or two - the problem is if you have one killer fault in a product here, it destroys you like Lancia, Rover, or whoever else unless you can market your way out of it. Its only through the last 20 years of marketing that people still go "oh, VW are reliable", but its in the national conciousness as much as "Rovers need Headgaskets" so they've got a free reign to be shoddy, as long as 1 fault doesn't become famous.
dvs_dave said:
Outside of Europe, they don't sell all that well, and I can't for the life of me figure out why they have zero presence in the US market? The US market is all about downsizing at the moment so PSA are missing out on a huge chunk of the action that the Japanese and Koreans are all over.
I think they pulled out in the '80s so they're missing the boat now. I'd have thought the Citroen DS3 would have fitted in nicely with the demand for Minis, Fiat 500s and such. I doubt the cheaper small stuff would do well out there though against the Koreans, or the bigger stuff, so I guess they've not deemed it worthwhile to open up dealers. I'd have thought they'd have made an attempt though, like you say.
Edited by ImpossiblyDaft on Thursday 10th January 23:30
dvs_dave said:
Outside of Europe, they don't sell all that well, and I can't for the life of me figure out why they have zero presence in the US market? The US market is all about downsizing at the moment so PSA are missing out on a huge chunk of the action that the Japanese and Koreans are all over.
The problem with the US market is you can't just ship a European car over there and start selling it Ford explicitly engineering the mk6 fiesta to meet US market requirements in addition to EU requirements. BMW started out with a plan to sell Mini's in the US and Fait spent a couple of years and many millions of euro's re-engineering the 500 to comply with US regs. PSA launching certain models in the US does make sense but do they have the time and euro's to do the rework needed? This is of course before you consider the spend required to build a dealer network from nothing. Fiat had a potential network of Chrysler dealers or to act seed outlets. BMW pushed Mini through existing BMW dealers and Ford are ummm Ford with loads of outlets.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff