ESP in the snow

[Chris71]

The past week or so has been my first prolonged experience of using an ESP-equipped car in the snow and it's been a bit of a revelation.

Obviously it's not a substitute for winter tyres or common sense, but while my previous car would have been quite hard work on some of the uncleared hills I tackled on Friday afternoon the Hyundai i30 courtesy car I have currently just took it all in its stride. None of the usual slithering about - it made the process virtually idiot-proof.

Would definitely consider it a plus for a daily driver now.

[kambites]

Quite impressive isn't it? No fun, though.

[plasticpig]

Huyundai build cars with Extra Sensory Perception?

[The Black Flash]

Completely ruins the empty-snow-covered-carpark thing. The only time I've been bothered about not being able to turn it off
Very impressive though.

[Chris71]

kambites said:

Quite impressive isn't it? No fun, though.

Indeed. Dropped one of my colleagues off at a deserted (snow covered) car park the other day and I was amazed what a killjoy it is - yank the handbrake up and it cuts the power while straightening it up with the front brakes!

A bit dull if you're of the hooligan persuasion, but a godsend if it's fitted to the yummy mummy's car that's careering towards you on a snowy hill.

[JDFR]

Depending on the type of snow and gradient, sometimes I find ESP more of a hindrance than a help. It's akin to shuffling left or right to get pass someone on the street. You go left, they go right and you both adjust at the same time and walk in to each other.

A lot of time when ESP works out it is needed, it's too late.

[Baryonyx]

I prefer to switch my traction control off in the snow, as I've found TC systems are easily confused if there is no 'snow' mode! Sometimes it's best to pilot the car by feel rather than letting the fair weather electronics guide the car. ESP can also be a hindrance depending on the type of road and the other prevailing conditions so being able to switch that off too is useful!

[Caulkhead]

Baryonyx said:

I prefer to switch my traction control off in the snow, as I've found TC systems are easily confused if there is no 'snow' mode! Sometimes it's best to pilot the car by feel rather than letting the fair weather electronics guide the car. ESP can also be a hindrance depending on the type of road and the other prevailing conditions so being able to switch that off too is useful!

My Mazda 6 MPS is better in the snow with the ESP turned off. With it on it dithers trying to punt the torque around, without the rear LSD gets to do its job and better progress is made.

Interestingly, the best non-off-roader I have in the snow is my humble Fiat Doblo. No TC or ESP, decent ground clearance, skinny tyres and FWD with a heavy 1.9 diesel over the driven wheels and it goes just about anywhere on snow and ice given judicious use of 2nd and 3rd.

[TheTurbonator]

Chris71 said:

kambites said:

Quite impressive isn't it? No fun, though.

Indeed. Dropped one of my colleagues off at a deserted (snow covered) car park the other day and I was amazed what a killjoy it is - yank the handbrake up and it cuts the power while straightening it up with the front brakes!

A bit dull if you're of the hooligan persuasion, but a godsend if it's fitted to the yummy mummy's car that's careering towards you on a snowy hill.

I don't even have a handbrake, something which I've severely missed over these past few days.

[POORCARDEALER]

My 2 mercs are useless with ESP on, cant get up my driveway, with it off they drive up without much problem

[Chris71]

currybum said:

*Awaits the "I'm a fantastic driver and can control the car much better than any computer rubbish" Pistonheadder *

...oh wait...never mind.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting it to do that well as it did. I used to live in the Alps so no stranger to snow, but I'd have to concentrate pretty hard to do any better. Skinny tyres, relatively low weight, FWD and minimal torque don't do the i30 any harm either, I guess.

[Ari]

currybum said:

*Awaits the "I'm a fantastic driver and can control the car much better than any computer rubbish" Pistonheadder *


...oh wait...never mind.

Quite!

Excellent example of ESP in action on snow and ice here (albeit in a four wheel drive Lamborghini), watch from 2 mins on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK5cse6-pdA

Obviously the PHDG's, with their four individual brake pedals enabling them to precisely meter out braking to each of their four wheels individually, will be able to do better than it, but for real people with actual cars it's a real boon.

[Oldandslow]

Caulkhead said:

Interestingly, the best non-off-roader I have in the snow is my humble Fiat Doblo. No TC or ESP, decent ground clearance, skinny tyres and FWD with a heavy 1.9 diesel over the driven wheels and it goes just about anywhere on snow and ice given judicious use of 2nd and 3rd.

Similarly while my Scooby is totally unflustered by the snow my old Renault 5 seemed to be unstoppable for a lot of the same reasons. If you kept the front wheels pointed where you wanted to go the rear would swing about a bit but follow along.

[g3org3y]

Last week when playing in the snow in the ASDA carpark I tried both with ASC on and off.

The ASC+T system on the E36 is quite crude compared to the later DSC but I was genuinely impressed how much grief you needed to give it to get it out of shape.

[Johnnytheboy]

currybum said:

*Awaits the "I'm a fantastic driver and can control the car much better than any computer rubbish" Pistonheadder *


...oh wait...never mind.

Purely empirically, I had some silly old sod stop halfway up an incline in front of me on Friday AM.

When I went to pull away my TC (VW van) kicked in and stopped me moving at all.

Turning it off meant I could wheelspin up the hill fairly effectively.

I'm sure I'm about to be told I'm wrong but that's what happened to me.

[kambites]

Traction control when pulling away on a hill is the one bit of ESP that doesn't work properly in the snow. Once moving, it can do things that no driver could ever do because it can brake all four wheels independently to keep the car straight.

[slinky]

Titting about in the Qashqai the other night, I was doing power understeer whilst leaving an island and was suprised at how efficiently the ESP/TCS/DSC, or whatever it has installed, tidied things up..

[Timberwolf]

Caulkhead said:

Interestingly, the best non-off-roader I have in the snow is my humble Fiat Doblo. No TC or ESP, decent ground clearance, skinny tyres and FWD with a heavy 1.9 diesel over the driven wheels and it goes just about anywhere on snow and ice given judicious use of 2nd and 3rd.

Mine was a Ford Orion - crap in almost every other measurable way, but a similar combination of narrow tyres and weight distribution influenced by a pig iron engine block over the front wheels and a lightweight rust/air alloy over the rears made it able to charge around quite happily in deep snow.

[McSam]

kambites said:

Quite impressive isn't it? No fun, though.

This sums my thoughts up too!

I gave the BMW full beans in second with the system turned on, just to see what would happen. There was some compacted snow on the road but far from the worst I've dealt with. I could feel everything it was doing - gently rolling some power off, putting it back on, dabbing a single brake if one side was starting to slide too much (it allows some slip) - and it generated some seriously remarkable acceleration, given what happened if I just modulated it myself without the system turned on. Gave a very good impression of a limited-slip diff.

It won't hinder me pulling away as it's designed not to, and it seems very capable of using all the grip available, and allowing some slip in straight-ahead acceleration, as is optimal on snow.

It's also pretty good on roundabouts, in that you can get it turned in, give full power where a quarter would have been enough to get her sliding, and nothing dramatic will happen at all. There's no delay in the system intervening, no jerk as it catches, it just.. behaves. Brilliant. And while it was a top-flight system when it was new, it's 13 years old now..

Impressive as it all is, though, it won't let me get proper, look-ahead-out-of-the-side-window slides going on private roads

ETA - This is the DSC system. Which is cracking. A stone-age traction control on my mk1 Mondeo was rather less so, but I hope that modern cars are more similar to the system I have now!

Edited by McSam on Monday 21st January 14:14

[Prof Prolapse]

I've never had ASM until November. Brilliant on the Z4, I tried it out on the car park with and without and the difference is fantastic.

I love the handbook comment as well, "please bear in mind the ASM cannot change the laws of physics", I couldn't help but feel that BMW missed the opportunity to include the words "cannae" and "captain".