Will an independant dealer take a car back?
Discussion
Obviously the answer is ring him and ask...
Bought a car for £1450 yesterday, which on the face of it seemed pretty decent. 10 years old and 128k miles, it has a few faults but nothing that can't be fixed. Apart from today when accelerating up a motorway slip road, I change gear at around 4500rpm and noticed a big grey cloud of smoke escape from the exhaut pipe. A few more high rpm lifts of the throttle produced the same.
Suddenly the car doesn't seem quite as good value as it first appeared. Thinking of asking the dealer for my px back, and he can keep the £200 deposit. Does this sound fair enough?
My argument is that the short test drive didn't allow for such high rpm driving, and today was the first time i've driven it in daylight!
Bought a car for £1450 yesterday, which on the face of it seemed pretty decent. 10 years old and 128k miles, it has a few faults but nothing that can't be fixed. Apart from today when accelerating up a motorway slip road, I change gear at around 4500rpm and noticed a big grey cloud of smoke escape from the exhaut pipe. A few more high rpm lifts of the throttle produced the same.
Suddenly the car doesn't seem quite as good value as it first appeared. Thinking of asking the dealer for my px back, and he can keep the £200 deposit. Does this sound fair enough?
My argument is that the short test drive didn't allow for such high rpm driving, and today was the first time i've driven it in daylight!
With respect though if you want a car without issues with many years of life left in it you need to be spending more than £1450 and buying a car which hasn't done 128,000 miles.
Bangernomics is fine, I myself bought a cheap 4x4 to turn into an expedition truck, I did however go in knowing that there was a possibility it would s
t itself, which it did. I just accepted that that is the danger of buying at that end of the market. I could have splashed £50k on a brand new 4x4 which would have given me peace of mind longer term but I didn't.
Bangernomics is fine, I myself bought a cheap 4x4 to turn into an expedition truck, I did however go in knowing that there was a possibility it would s
t itself, which it did. I just accepted that that is the danger of buying at that end of the market. I could have splashed £50k on a brand new 4x4 which would have given me peace of mind longer term but I didn't.Perhaps it just needs an italian tune up.
If it's been in stock for a while, and has been shunted around the forecourt without ever being properly run - I would expect a bit of carbon build up, and the grey smoke you're seeing is the carbon burning off.
I would put some V Power fuel in it, and take it for a good run, being generous with the revs.
And see if the smoke goes away.
I suspect it will.
128k miles for a non turbo Volvo engine is nothing - I doubt if there is anything wrong with it.
If it's been in stock for a while, and has been shunted around the forecourt without ever being properly run - I would expect a bit of carbon build up, and the grey smoke you're seeing is the carbon burning off.
I would put some V Power fuel in it, and take it for a good run, being generous with the revs.
And see if the smoke goes away.
I suspect it will.
128k miles for a non turbo Volvo engine is nothing - I doubt if there is anything wrong with it.
TonyRPH said:
Perhaps it just needs an italian tune up.
If it's been in stock for a while, and has been shunted around the forecourt without ever being properly run - I would expect a bit of carbon build up, and the grey smoke you're seeing is the carbon burning off.
I would put some V Power fuel in it, and take it for a good run, being generous with the revs.
And see if the smoke goes away.
I suspect it will.
128k miles for a non turbo Volvo engine is nothing - I doubt if there is anything wrong with it.
I like this response, you're giving me hope. I did at first think it was a case of blowing out the cobwebs, but the smoke kept coming. Only driven around 50 miles in it so far and most of that in 30mph limits, so it could improve yet. If it's been in stock for a while, and has been shunted around the forecourt without ever being properly run - I would expect a bit of carbon build up, and the grey smoke you're seeing is the carbon burning off.
I would put some V Power fuel in it, and take it for a good run, being generous with the revs.
And see if the smoke goes away.
I suspect it will.
128k miles for a non turbo Volvo engine is nothing - I doubt if there is anything wrong with it.
I didn't buy the car to go racing around in, but it makes a Focus ST style 5 Cylinder warble above 4000rpm which is kind of addictive.
Plenty on here will now shout SOGA!!! and say that as you bought from a dealer, he must take the car back or fix it.
It's not quite so clear cut. Caveat Emptor does not necessarily apply, as he was a trader, but at the end of the day this is a £1500, 10 year old car that's done 128k miles.
What qualifies a car like that as 'fit for purpose'? You will say that the engine smoking shows it isn't. He will point to the price, age and mileage and say it is. It certainly wouldn't be clear cut either way.
With that in mind, I would firstly find out exactly what's wrong with it and what it will cost to repair.
If it's reasonably simple/cheap - swallow it.
If it's terminal, talk to the guy. Be fair and reasonable. Explain that you know he has some obligations but you are also aware of the age and condition of the car. Be prepared to compromise.
If he stone-walls you, it's a difficult one. I have to say I'd veer onto the side of it being an old, high mileage car and swallowing it.....
It's not quite so clear cut. Caveat Emptor does not necessarily apply, as he was a trader, but at the end of the day this is a £1500, 10 year old car that's done 128k miles.
What qualifies a car like that as 'fit for purpose'? You will say that the engine smoking shows it isn't. He will point to the price, age and mileage and say it is. It certainly wouldn't be clear cut either way.
With that in mind, I would firstly find out exactly what's wrong with it and what it will cost to repair.
If it's reasonably simple/cheap - swallow it.
If it's terminal, talk to the guy. Be fair and reasonable. Explain that you know he has some obligations but you are also aware of the age and condition of the car. Be prepared to compromise.
If he stone-walls you, it's a difficult one. I have to say I'd veer onto the side of it being an old, high mileage car and swallowing it.....
markmullen said:
With respect though if you want a car without issues with many years of life left in it you need to be spending more than £1450 and buying a car which hasn't done 128,000 miles.
Completely agree. However, if I've got athe option of handing it back just 24 hours after I picked it up, I might use it.Can't decide though. I really like the car, just don't want to end up throwing it away come MOT time.
mnkiboy said:
ompletely agree. However, if I've got athe option of handing it back just 24 hours after I picked it up, I might use it.
Can't decide though. I really like the car, just don't want to end up throwing it away come MOT time.
I've also found that cars which have stood on a forecourt for a while benefit from an oil change.Can't decide though. I really like the car, just don't want to end up throwing it away come MOT time.
I suspect this is due to the engine never getting warm, and the subsequent 'bore washing' that takes place, and maybe some mild dilution of the oil.
This is difficult. I somewhat doubt it smokes simply because its a bit old but is otherwise fine.
It will smoke because it has a fault with the engine. I think it's reasonable to expect dents, dinks, scratches, perhaps slightly reduced levels of performance, a stain on the seat, maybea sunroof that doesnt open anymore or whatever on a £1500 car but when buying from a dealer surely the one thing you DO have a right to expect is that the basic mechanical components involved with making it go, stop and turn corners are not faulty?
A car being 10 years old with 130k on it doesn't give a dealer carte blance to flog it to the public when it's fundamentally broken. It doesn't mean he need provide a sparkingly minter worthy of any manufacturers Approved Used Scheme either, but come on guys. The engine sounds screwed. You can't profit out of retailing cars with screwed engines to unsuspecting members of the public.
It will smoke because it has a fault with the engine. I think it's reasonable to expect dents, dinks, scratches, perhaps slightly reduced levels of performance, a stain on the seat, maybea sunroof that doesnt open anymore or whatever on a £1500 car but when buying from a dealer surely the one thing you DO have a right to expect is that the basic mechanical components involved with making it go, stop and turn corners are not faulty?
A car being 10 years old with 130k on it doesn't give a dealer carte blance to flog it to the public when it's fundamentally broken. It doesn't mean he need provide a sparkingly minter worthy of any manufacturers Approved Used Scheme either, but come on guys. The engine sounds screwed. You can't profit out of retailing cars with screwed engines to unsuspecting members of the public.
I would suggest an attempt at negotiation with the seller. You do have rights and he is a trader. But apparently you test drove the car and satisfied yourself as to condition before purchase. I hope reasonable discussion will give some redress. If not I am inclined to think that demanding a full refund from a trader in this sector of the car market is unlikely to produce anything other than a refusal.
You could try litigation and Trading Standards but as others have said caveat emptor is the real lesson.
You could try litigation and Trading Standards but as others have said caveat emptor is the real lesson.
mnkiboy said:
Obviously the answer is ring him and ask...
Bought a car for £1450 yesterday, which on the face of it seemed pretty decent. 10 years old and 128k miles, it has a few faults but nothing that can't be fixed. Apart from today when accelerating up a motorway slip road, I change gear at around 4500rpm and noticed a big grey cloud of smoke escape from the exhaut pipe. A few more high rpm lifts of the throttle produced the same.
Suddenly the car doesn't seem quite as good value as it first appeared. Thinking of asking the dealer for my px back, and he can keep the £200 deposit. Does this sound fair enough?
My argument is that the short test drive didn't allow for such high rpm driving, and today was the first time i've driven it in daylight!
Sounds like rings, as you lift off you get a high depresion in the cylinders and it can suck oil up the bores, valve guides can do the same. It may also be blow by in the crankcase dumping into the closed emisions control syatem. That engine has not been well looked after as it should be fine at that age, however it could be argued its comensurate with price/mileage etc. As note and oil change and a bit of running may ungum the rings and it will be fine. People used to soak in Redex overnight but i'm not convinced that stuff works, and i dont know if it kills the cat. Otherwise, keep the revs down and an eye on the oil if you want to run it on for a while.Bought a car for £1450 yesterday, which on the face of it seemed pretty decent. 10 years old and 128k miles, it has a few faults but nothing that can't be fixed. Apart from today when accelerating up a motorway slip road, I change gear at around 4500rpm and noticed a big grey cloud of smoke escape from the exhaut pipe. A few more high rpm lifts of the throttle produced the same.
Suddenly the car doesn't seem quite as good value as it first appeared. Thinking of asking the dealer for my px back, and he can keep the £200 deposit. Does this sound fair enough?
My argument is that the short test drive didn't allow for such high rpm driving, and today was the first time i've driven it in daylight!
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