Are accidents up or down on average speed m/ways?
Discussion
Reading an article on another forum I see many of the posters are of the belief that managed M/Ways and average speeds are a good thing, the assumption being that being 'controlled' lessen the potential for an accident.
Are there any stats to prove this theory wrong?
My personal opinion based on driving the M42, M1 and currently the M62 is that it feels even more dangerous, with everyone trying to 50 the cars tend to bunch together and as nobody wants to speed up it more often than not means there is no 'comfort bubble' around the car.
Are there any stats to prove this theory wrong?
My personal opinion based on driving the M42, M1 and currently the M62 is that it feels even more dangerous, with everyone trying to 50 the cars tend to bunch together and as nobody wants to speed up it more often than not means there is no 'comfort bubble' around the car.
The problem really is people suddenly dropping the anchors because they realise they're in an average speed zone.
Say you come up to it at around 80, realise midway that you've cocked up so you slam on and drop to around 40, the poor fella behind you doing a steady 50 suddenly has a tonne and a half of metal in front of him far quicker than he could've predicted.
This isn't always the case but more often than not, this is how it pans out.
Say you come up to it at around 80, realise midway that you've cocked up so you slam on and drop to around 40, the poor fella behind you doing a steady 50 suddenly has a tonne and a half of metal in front of him far quicker than he could've predicted.
This isn't always the case but more often than not, this is how it pans out.
aizvara said:
Not a motorway, but similar; A14 through Cambridgeshire introduced average speed cameras. This has apparently reduced deaths and serious injuries by 68% on that route.
This is the stretch I've driven the most and I must admit that, whilst it's dull, it does seem to take the stress/edge out of all motorists - no-one can make progress faster than 70, so everyone seems to relax rather than trying to force people out of the way. In my experience there also tends to be less braking, and with much lower speed differentials between the fastest and slowest cars, I can well believe it's substantially safer.
_Neal_ said:
This is the stretch I've driven the most and I must admit that, whilst it's dull, it does seem to take the stress/edge out of all motorists - no-one can make progress faster than 70, so everyone seems to relax rather than trying to force people out of the way.
In my experience there also tends to be less braking, and with much lower speed differentials between the fastest and slowest cars, I can well believe it's substantially safer.
I don't drive it often at peak times (aside from a very short stretch), but most people I've talked to about it agree with what you say.In my experience there also tends to be less braking, and with much lower speed differentials between the fastest and slowest cars, I can well believe it's substantially safer.
the only times I have even remotely come close to having an accident in the last few years have all occurred in average speed zones! Constantly fixated on the speedo!.. People still cut in suddenly, manoeuvre without indicating/looking and drive too close to the car in front in average speed zones. The only difference is my eyes are often distracted from their idiocy to scan my speedo..
..this being Pistonheads though cue the replies of 'haven't your cars got Cruise Control?! I can't imagine piloting something so old, cheap and nasty it doesn't have cruise!?'
There is no satisfactory replacement for Traffic Officers on the road. They are necessary to spot dangerous and aggressive driving rather than a safe motorist in a performance car doing 90 on a lightly trafficked road in good conditions. I see examples every day of crazy and dangerous driving that rarely envolve excessive speed as the main factor
..this being Pistonheads though cue the replies of 'haven't your cars got Cruise Control?! I can't imagine piloting something so old, cheap and nasty it doesn't have cruise!?'
There is no satisfactory replacement for Traffic Officers on the road. They are necessary to spot dangerous and aggressive driving rather than a safe motorist in a performance car doing 90 on a lightly trafficked road in good conditions. I see examples every day of crazy and dangerous driving that rarely envolve excessive speed as the main factor
I've always found them to be pretty good. I've never seen any examples of this panic braking that people are talking about, although you do see that a lot on roads with old-fashioned speed cameras.
I'm a bit disturbed that people feel the need to stare at the speedometer at the exclusion of their other awareness just to maintain a constant speed, though. I'm amazed that anyone who's been driving for more than a handful of years can't maintain their speed within 1 or 2 mph without using the speedometer just from the engine tone.
I'm a bit disturbed that people feel the need to stare at the speedometer at the exclusion of their other awareness just to maintain a constant speed, though. I'm amazed that anyone who's been driving for more than a handful of years can't maintain their speed within 1 or 2 mph without using the speedometer just from the engine tone.
billzeebub said:
..this being Pistonheads though cue the replies of 'haven't your cars got Cruise Control?! I can't imagine piloting something so old, cheap and nasty it doesn't have cruise!?'
If you drove an MX5 or Elise you'd be able to notice if your speed changed by more than a couple of MPH.[/PHcliches]
billzeebub said:
the only times I have even remotely come close to having an accident in the last few years have all occurred in average speed zones! Constantly fixated on the speedo!.. People still cut in suddenly, manoeuvre without indicating/looking and drive too close to the car in front in average speed zones. The only difference is my eyes are often distracted from their idiocy to scan my speedo..
..this being Pistonheads though cue the replies of 'haven't your cars got Cruise Control?! I can't imagine piloting something so old, cheap and nasty it doesn't have cruise!?'
I find that I can tell roughly how fast I am travelling from non-visual cues, or at least a glance on entering the average speed zone, then hold it at that speed. I rarely use cruise control as I don't feel comfortable with it...this being Pistonheads though cue the replies of 'haven't your cars got Cruise Control?! I can't imagine piloting something so old, cheap and nasty it doesn't have cruise!?'
I think two separate things are being mixed up here: 'Managed Motorways' do not necessarily have average speed cameras - they are straightforward rear-facing speed cams mostly - certainly on the M6 and M42.
Managed Motorways have the hard shoulder available as a running lane and overhead gantries with red-circle, legally-enforceable speed limits (rather than orange advisory signs). When a red-circle limit is displayed, the cameras will be active for that speed (or that's the theory!)
Average speed sections have been introduced on many sections of road - the A14 has already been mentioned - but these aren't called Managed Motorways.
Managed Motorways have the hard shoulder available as a running lane and overhead gantries with red-circle, legally-enforceable speed limits (rather than orange advisory signs). When a red-circle limit is displayed, the cameras will be active for that speed (or that's the theory!)
Average speed sections have been introduced on many sections of road - the A14 has already been mentioned - but these aren't called Managed Motorways.
MK4 Slowride said:
The problems I see are at the start & finish of the speed limits. At the start you have all the brakes and lane jostling. Then at the end when people floor it and get in each others way.
I think between the start of the speed limit and the first average speed camera is the dodgy bit. The people going for the limit can be doing 40mph and the people who know the stretch and are only planning to do 40 at the first camera are still doing 70-80mph.From experience, a notorious cause of 
is in a section of a managed motorway where a decent amount of traffic has passed through a number of camera-equipped gantries - these gantries are closely bunched together, without an indicated speed limit (assumed NSL) at 70-80. Suddenly out of nowhere, often around a blind bend (or the closest you can get to on the motorway network - M4 westbound just before the Brynglas Tunnels at Newport is a prime example), the gantry indicates a 50 limit. Cue car after car slamming on the anchors and rear-endings not to be unexpected at busy times.
Significant dangers in average speed SPECS zones, from what I can see, are:
is in a section of a managed motorway where a decent amount of traffic has passed through a number of camera-equipped gantries - these gantries are closely bunched together, without an indicated speed limit (assumed NSL) at 70-80. Suddenly out of nowhere, often around a blind bend (or the closest you can get to on the motorway network - M4 westbound just before the Brynglas Tunnels at Newport is a prime example), the gantry indicates a 50 limit. Cue car after car slamming on the anchors and rear-endings not to be unexpected at busy times.Significant dangers in average speed SPECS zones, from what I can see, are:
- Drivers in lanes 2/3 losing concentration, letting their speed creep up to 60+, realising and dropping to 40 which remaining in the same lane, traffic behind (minds numbed out of boredom) being forced to suddenly slow, or pull into an outer lane to conduct a very low speed overtake. This could block in traffic behind who may well be looking to do a faster overtake, within the bounds of the SPECS tolerances.
- Drivers in lane 1 (normally the hard shoulder) deciding that the road surface is so abysmal that they need to pull into lane 2 (without checking blind spots), which is likely to be occupied by a substantial amount of traffic moving at the same slow steady pace.
- Tailgating lorry drivers, looking to drive at their usual 56mph when car traffic has suddenly slowed to below that.
aizvara said:
Not a motorway, but similar; A14 through Cambridgeshire introduced average speed cameras. This has apparently reduced deaths and serious injuries by 68% on that route.
The problem with this system is that the limit is there 24 hours a day 7 days a week. On manged motorways it should only be there when traffic levels demand it.Also need to look at accident figures supplied as sometimes theres a spike in advance of the camera being installed and you need to ensure you are looking at a true average.
I've had experience of the variable speed limit on the 'Heathrow' section of the M25 since it was created, and it's b
ks. It never matches the traffic speed, and vica versa. As for average speed cameras, my only experience has been road works, where they seem to 'work', because most motorists seem to accept road works as a hazard, and drive accordingly. However, I'm against anything that causes a traffic convoy. Inevitably, the vehicles someway about mid convoy to the end, experience 'shunting', the traffic speed starts to oscillate, and it drives me nuts, and often results in tail end shunts. I seem to remember, that when the USA has its 55mph speed limits, huge accidents arose when someone towards the front had a mishap. Motorways seem to work best to me, when traffic sets its own speed limit, and convoys never seem to happen. Unless you get a Mr. Plod doing 70mph on the inside lane!!!
ks. It never matches the traffic speed, and vica versa. As for average speed cameras, my only experience has been road works, where they seem to 'work', because most motorists seem to accept road works as a hazard, and drive accordingly. However, I'm against anything that causes a traffic convoy. Inevitably, the vehicles someway about mid convoy to the end, experience 'shunting', the traffic speed starts to oscillate, and it drives me nuts, and often results in tail end shunts. I seem to remember, that when the USA has its 55mph speed limits, huge accidents arose when someone towards the front had a mishap. Motorways seem to work best to me, when traffic sets its own speed limit, and convoys never seem to happen. Unless you get a Mr. Plod doing 70mph on the inside lane!!!robinessex said:
I've had experience of the variable speed limit on the 'Heathrow' section of the M25 since it was created, and it's bks. It never matches the traffic speed, and vica versa. As for average speed cameras, my only experience has been road works, where they seem to 'work', because most motorists seem to accept road works as a hazard, and drive accordingly. However, I'm against anything that causes a traffic convoy. Inevitably, the vehicles someway about mid convoy to the end, experience 'shunting', the traffic speed starts to oscillate, and it drives me nuts, and often results in tail end shunts. I seem to remember, that when the USA has its 55mph speed limits, huge accidents arose when someone towards the front had a mishap. Motorways seem to work best to me, when traffic sets its own speed limit, and convoys never seem to happen. Unless you get a Mr. Plod doing 70mph on the inside lane!!!
What's wrong with doing 70mph in the inside lane? Surely 90% of motorway driving should consist of this?ks. It never matches the traffic speed, and vica versa. As for average speed cameras, my only experience has been road works, where they seem to 'work', because most motorists seem to accept road works as a hazard, and drive accordingly. However, I'm against anything that causes a traffic convoy. Inevitably, the vehicles someway about mid convoy to the end, experience 'shunting', the traffic speed starts to oscillate, and it drives me nuts, and often results in tail end shunts. I seem to remember, that when the USA has its 55mph speed limits, huge accidents arose when someone towards the front had a mishap. Motorways seem to work best to me, when traffic sets its own speed limit, and convoys never seem to happen. Unless you get a Mr. Plod doing 70mph on the inside lane!!!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff