Suitable first Track car?!
Discussion
Hi guys,
Just starting out with my driving life!
I've just turned 17 and should have passed my driving test passed in around 4 weeks or so.
I'm pretty interested in the whole track scene and looking to get into it with a friend who is training to be a mechanic.
I've established it's going to be a costly thing to do, but both of us work and have a passion for cars (we're not typical boy racers).
We're not after anything too quick and the idea is we can have our track car for going out and enjoying ourselves and modifiying for more power etc and then take our road cars sensibly. (also hopefully develop our driving skills).
After working through figures we can most likely afford to spend around £1000 each but if need be we can likely secure more money by taking on more hours etc.
I've had a good look about for cars etc and thinking about either a 1.8 ST celica- which are fairly cheap to pick up and from driving celicas before think they're lovely to drive! OR a 2.0 GT Celica.
(Both around the 1995-1999 mark).
Would this be a good starting point for a track car? Would be looking to spend about £500 on the actual car itself and maybe £500 bringing it up to spec.
Both of us would be taking an ARDS test to ensure we're up to standard with driving.
Obviously neither of us will get insured on a celica so we will need a trailer and my dad can drive us to our local track, so this will need to be budgetted into the cost (seen trailers for £800).
So.. my question is; would a celica be a good track car to start out at? Or what else would you reccomend? Have I missed any critical points in considoring this? What Modifications would I need to do to ensure the car is track ready? (tyres, exhaust, induction kit, suspension etc.)
Thanks in advance!
Just starting out with my driving life!
I've just turned 17 and should have passed my driving test passed in around 4 weeks or so.
I'm pretty interested in the whole track scene and looking to get into it with a friend who is training to be a mechanic.
I've established it's going to be a costly thing to do, but both of us work and have a passion for cars (we're not typical boy racers).
We're not after anything too quick and the idea is we can have our track car for going out and enjoying ourselves and modifiying for more power etc and then take our road cars sensibly. (also hopefully develop our driving skills).
After working through figures we can most likely afford to spend around £1000 each but if need be we can likely secure more money by taking on more hours etc.
I've had a good look about for cars etc and thinking about either a 1.8 ST celica- which are fairly cheap to pick up and from driving celicas before think they're lovely to drive! OR a 2.0 GT Celica.
(Both around the 1995-1999 mark).
Would this be a good starting point for a track car? Would be looking to spend about £500 on the actual car itself and maybe £500 bringing it up to spec.
Both of us would be taking an ARDS test to ensure we're up to standard with driving.
Obviously neither of us will get insured on a celica so we will need a trailer and my dad can drive us to our local track, so this will need to be budgetted into the cost (seen trailers for £800).
So.. my question is; would a celica be a good track car to start out at? Or what else would you reccomend? Have I missed any critical points in considoring this? What Modifications would I need to do to ensure the car is track ready? (tyres, exhaust, induction kit, suspension etc.)
Thanks in advance!
Personally, I wouldn't go for anything FWD - if you really want to learn how to drive quickly on Track, I'd go for something RWD to introduce more of a challenge (Plus it's more fun 
My Friends and I did something similar to you and brought a BMW 320i (see my profile) for track use. It only cost us £300 and is perfect for learning the ropes. There are so many performance upgrades and used parts, you really can't go wrong!
My Friends and I did something similar to you and brought a BMW 320i (see my profile) for track use. It only cost us £300 and is perfect for learning the ropes. There are so many performance upgrades and used parts, you really can't go wrong!
rupertmullis said:
Not too keen on the saxos or 106's either!
Would ideally like to stick to Jap or German!
Whatever you can afford will be the best bet. Track insurance won't be cheap. And of course, you'll need to stay committed with the trailering aspect of things too, as you won't be able to drive your track car on the road for a few years yet, I would imagine!Would ideally like to stick to Jap or German!
Are you planning on racing at some point?
Unless the answer is yes, don't bother with the ARDS test - it doesnt prove you can drive (seeing the antics of some people i've raced against...). Use that money getting your car ready.
Work on brakes and suspension setup first before tuning engine.
Unless the answer is yes, don't bother with the ARDS test - it doesnt prove you can drive (seeing the antics of some people i've raced against...). Use that money getting your car ready.
Work on brakes and suspension setup first before tuning engine.
I'd start out with something kit like. Much lighter and more simple than any mass produced car. So easier and cheaper to maintain.
Some of the ugly 7 alike kits can be bought cheap and/or part finished. If you don't need it road legal it's a bonus. Although insurance on kits cars is generally very cheap.
You might need to up your budget slightly but you'd get a vehicle more designed for what you want it to do.
Some of the ugly 7 alike kits can be bought cheap and/or part finished. If you don't need it road legal it's a bonus. Although insurance on kits cars is generally very cheap.
You might need to up your budget slightly but you'd get a vehicle more designed for what you want it to do.
A few mods probably make sense if you're going to use it as a track-only car.
However, a lot of people rush off like kids heading to the toy store and stock up on things they don't strictly need for track days. Most vaguely sporty road cars will cope will cope with track driving in standard condition providing they're in good nick. Obviously if you want to stay out until the tank goes dry, late braking into all the corners you're going to need high temperature fluid and some meatier pads.
When it comes to track machinery I'd say follow the herd. MX-5s and Clio 172s are reasonably plentiful for that sort of money and there'll be a wealth of information on modifying them for more regular track use if that's what you intend. If you go for something more unusual you won't have that level of support.
Can't claim to know that much about the Celica, but my gut feeling is that a smaller, lighter Clio or a RWD MX-5 would be more fun.
The only other thing I can suggest is up your budget substantially (£4k+) to get a Sylva Leader or a Sylva Phoenix. A good one will obliterate virtually any production car for the same sort of budget.
However, a lot of people rush off like kids heading to the toy store and stock up on things they don't strictly need for track days. Most vaguely sporty road cars will cope will cope with track driving in standard condition providing they're in good nick. Obviously if you want to stay out until the tank goes dry, late braking into all the corners you're going to need high temperature fluid and some meatier pads.
When it comes to track machinery I'd say follow the herd. MX-5s and Clio 172s are reasonably plentiful for that sort of money and there'll be a wealth of information on modifying them for more regular track use if that's what you intend. If you go for something more unusual you won't have that level of support.
Can't claim to know that much about the Celica, but my gut feeling is that a smaller, lighter Clio or a RWD MX-5 would be more fun.
The only other thing I can suggest is up your budget substantially (£4k+) to get a Sylva Leader or a Sylva Phoenix. A good one will obliterate virtually any production car for the same sort of budget.
Hi, and welcome! Seems you have a good attitude for this sort of thing.. Do lots and lots of research before taking the plunge. Things that will amaze you are how quickly you'll melt road tyres in a hard circuit session, and how easily you'll fade worn brakes. These are your top priority - as the car will be track-only, you can put some performance pads in it to help mitigate the problem, and you should most definitely change the fluid too.
Stick to moderate tyres, don't get anything too track-focused as you'll be putting serious stress through your poor old chassis, and learning with lower grip is far better than creating a car with potential well above your own.
Very pleased to see that you want to do an ARDS course before getting into this, this will be invaluable - I recommend Silverstone head and shoulders above the rest, as they have good instructors and ensure you get the proper tuition and driving time you need, rather than just being punted out on track in a hot hatch to pass the test. The standard is high so make sure you pay attention their full-day ARDS course is £400 these days. Don't bother doing it elsewhere as you don't need the qualification, you need the instruction.
Oh, and budget at least £1000 for a half-decent trailer, look at Brian James Clubmans - these things don't depreciate at all and are a sound investment.
For the car, I would recommend a BMW E36, preferably a six, and since 328is are not really any more money than the others and you won't be insuring it for road use, that's where I'd be going. Early ones without traction control have limited-slip diffs, well worth having.
Hope you can keep us posted on your progress!
ETA - Track day insurance I've generally found to be around £70 a day, not bad between you and thoroughly worth it.
Stick to moderate tyres, don't get anything too track-focused as you'll be putting serious stress through your poor old chassis, and learning with lower grip is far better than creating a car with potential well above your own.
Very pleased to see that you want to do an ARDS course before getting into this, this will be invaluable - I recommend Silverstone head and shoulders above the rest, as they have good instructors and ensure you get the proper tuition and driving time you need, rather than just being punted out on track in a hot hatch to pass the test. The standard is high so make sure you pay attention
their full-day ARDS course is £400 these days. Don't bother doing it elsewhere as you don't need the qualification, you need the instruction.Oh, and budget at least £1000 for a half-decent trailer, look at Brian James Clubmans - these things don't depreciate at all and are a sound investment.
For the car, I would recommend a BMW E36, preferably a six, and since 328is are not really any more money than the others and you won't be insuring it for road use, that's where I'd be going. Early ones without traction control have limited-slip diffs, well worth having.
Hope you can keep us posted on your progress!
ETA - Track day insurance I've generally found to be around £70 a day, not bad between you and thoroughly worth it.
rupertmullis said:
I suppuse a RWD would be better for learning in!
So you would suggest a 320? Could be something for looking into! Do love bmws!
Forgot about brakes, always need to be able to stop!!
Not too keen on the MX5's, but never driven one myself, would that be a good track car then?!
It to be honest, I'd go for a 325i or 328i as there really is little price difference. It just depends if you trust yourself and your mate to go sensible with the power and not bin it on your first outing (I'm not sure I'd trust myself with 200BHP when I was 17)So you would suggest a 320? Could be something for looking into! Do love bmws!
Forgot about brakes, always need to be able to stop!!
Not too keen on the MX5's, but never driven one myself, would that be a good track car then?!
If you dont trust yourself - a 320 is a great way to start - lovely 6 cylinder noise too.
Brakes on the e36 are generally fine - Just upgrade the pads and get some Racing Fluid in there to begin with.
Also, don't bother with track Insurance on something costing 1k - not worth it.
The only things worth upgrading to start with are;
- Suspension - get some coilovers on there.
- Brakes - as mentioned above
- Lightening - The fun bit! Take out ALL the interior and anything else you dont need. Immediate performance and handling improvement.
The only things worth upgrading to start with are;
- Suspension - get some coilovers on there.
- Brakes - as mentioned above
- Lightening - The fun bit! Take out ALL the interior and anything else you dont need. Immediate performance and handling improvement.
300bhp/ton said:
I'd start out with something kit like. Much lighter and more simple than any mass produced car. So easier and cheaper to maintain.
Some of the ugly 7 alike kits can be bought cheap and/or part finished. If you don't need it road legal it's a bonus. Although insurance on kits cars is generally very cheap.
You might need to up your budget slightly but you'd get a vehicle more designed for what you want it to do.
This. You'll spend more buying the car but it won't need as much (if any) modification for track use, it'll be better on brakes, tyres and other consumables and should be easier to sell once you're finished with it.Some of the ugly 7 alike kits can be bought cheap and/or part finished. If you don't need it road legal it's a bonus. Although insurance on kits cars is generally very cheap.
You might need to up your budget slightly but you'd get a vehicle more designed for what you want it to do.
EDLT said:
300bhp/ton said:
I'd start out with something kit like. Much lighter and more simple than any mass produced car. So easier and cheaper to maintain.
Some of the ugly 7 alike kits can be bought cheap and/or part finished. If you don't need it road legal it's a bonus. Although insurance on kits cars is generally very cheap.
You might need to up your budget slightly but you'd get a vehicle more designed for what you want it to do.
This. You'll spend more buying the car but it won't need as much (if any) modification for track use, it'll be better on brakes, tyres and other consumables and should be easier to sell once you're finished with it.Some of the ugly 7 alike kits can be bought cheap and/or part finished. If you don't need it road legal it's a bonus. Although insurance on kits cars is generally very cheap.
You might need to up your budget slightly but you'd get a vehicle more designed for what you want it to do.
Chances are a kit car will already be lightweight, on good suspension and brakes and maybe even track bias tyres. Might have a roll bar or cage too, so there'll be little you'll need to do to use it on track. But plenty of scope if you want to improve it or get more power from it.
That said I've just had a quick look in the classifieds and I'm amazed at how few cheap kit cars there are at the mo. In the past there have always been a few for low money, but not today.
That said I still think it's a sound idea and worth the extra even if you have to save for a couple of months longer.
First, I wouldn't bother with the ARDS course. You can get TD tuition for a fraction of the cost - try BookaTrack.
Second, re the car choice: with that budget I would buy whatever you can that's in good condition and is small and light. FWD or RWD will both be fun. I would also look for something that uses a small very common tyre size, which can be picked up for next to nothing from a scrap yard. Less grip is more fun on track unless you're chasing lap times. A lot of the classic TD choices will attract a premium so look at the less popular cars. People will recommend GTis and MX5 etc but look how much fun the Celebs have in a Suzuki Liana.
Third, re: upgrades. I would spend the money you have on fresh fluids - Engine, Box, diff, and race brake fluid (i.e. Castrol SRF) - and some braided lines and upgraded pads. That would probably exhaust your budget.
Good luck
Second, re the car choice: with that budget I would buy whatever you can that's in good condition and is small and light. FWD or RWD will both be fun. I would also look for something that uses a small very common tyre size, which can be picked up for next to nothing from a scrap yard. Less grip is more fun on track unless you're chasing lap times. A lot of the classic TD choices will attract a premium so look at the less popular cars. People will recommend GTis and MX5 etc but look how much fun the Celebs have in a Suzuki Liana.
Third, re: upgrades. I would spend the money you have on fresh fluids - Engine, Box, diff, and race brake fluid (i.e. Castrol SRF) - and some braided lines and upgraded pads. That would probably exhaust your budget.
Good luck
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