Everlasting car ?
Discussion
I know there is no such thing but the Merc thread got me thinking about longevity, Crofty made a good point about cars not rusting out inside 5 years nowdays but everything is built down to a price, so given a money no object brief to design an adequate Saloon car that seats four in comfort which has modern features but not overkill, the key thing being it must last indefinitely with only consumables and oil/filter changes. I know the premium manufacturers make good products and the Korean stuff is very hard wearing but I am talking about something that lasts many times longer, the primary consideration is longevity.
What would a car company come up with, what differences would a car designed without a budget be like, where would the technology come from and what would be one differently, can rubber components be replaced or treated so they dont perish, can a bodyshell be desinged so it never rusts ?
The aircraft industry designs planes that can survive for 40 years, surely a car can be designed to do the same ?
What would a car company come up with, what differences would a car designed without a budget be like, where would the technology come from and what would be one differently, can rubber components be replaced or treated so they dont perish, can a bodyshell be desinged so it never rusts ?
The aircraft industry designs planes that can survive for 40 years, surely a car can be designed to do the same ?
I'd wager that if properly taken care of, most cars can last 40 years easily. The main issue is that cars are becoming consumables themselves, and as such why bother spending so much money keeping one in good condition when it will be changed in a couple of years anyway?
That is my view of the general public's point of view by the way, I appreciate most enthusiasts don't think like that.
That is my view of the general public's point of view by the way, I appreciate most enthusiasts don't think like that.
There's two ways of lasting forever - building all the original components to an incredibly high spec and spending a huge amount of time and money maintaining those parts, that's the aircraft method. Or you could make it from lower grade components, not maintain it anywhere near as carefully but make sure all the parts are easily available and a doddle to replace even down to major things like the chassis, that's the Land Rover Series/Defender method. 
The famous DMC delorean has a Stainless steel body, this will not rust (like your sink) this seems the most appropriate body material to use.
A good way to build the everlasting car would be to run all the components (engine, suspension, brakes etc) until they fail, look at how it failed and improve that part, do this test over and over until you reach a level you are happy with (1,000,000 miles)
Obviously this will kill the market, dealers sell you a car and its the last one you ever buy, I dont think dealers could survive like that.
Is there any other product that you can buy nowadays that lasts forever? i honestly cant think of something that would last forever.
A good way to build the everlasting car would be to run all the components (engine, suspension, brakes etc) until they fail, look at how it failed and improve that part, do this test over and over until you reach a level you are happy with (1,000,000 miles)
Obviously this will kill the market, dealers sell you a car and its the last one you ever buy, I dont think dealers could survive like that.
Is there any other product that you can buy nowadays that lasts forever? i honestly cant think of something that would last forever.
callmedave said:
The famous DMC delorean has a Stainless steel body, this will not rust (like your sink) this seems the most appropriate body material to use.
.
It was marketed as stainless steel, but its actually a skin. The Delorean has a normal steel chassis, which does rust, with a plastic body. The stainless steel then fits over the plastic body. Its more like a body finish, than an actual body..
Not into the why, more the how.
What would a car designed for the best possible longevity have different to any other car ?
Would the engine have higher oil capacity, what configuration in terms of cylinders, valves, cam drive and what differences in terms of construction, seals and bearings. How would a raditator be constructed so it doesnt disintegrate. Would an electric motor be the ultimate fit and forget power source ?
Would the body be made of steel or aluminium, what treatments, would it be thicker, what else could be done to make it last.
Trim, most cars have bits of trim come adrift and worn seats, could this be stopped.
Drivetrain, what gearbox, clutch and driveshafts etc, would the suspension componetns be alloy or pressed steel, what would the bushes be made of, can bolts used in the suspension be made so they dont corrode, can the coatings used not flake off after a few years, can springs be made not to crack, can dampers be made that dont go soggy.
Electical, how would electrical systems be done to avoid failures, could redundancy be used like in aircraft to provide additional reliability, would the electrical system be simple wires or some kind of electrical bus type thing, would LED bulbs be used.
What would a car designed for the best possible longevity have different to any other car ?
Would the engine have higher oil capacity, what configuration in terms of cylinders, valves, cam drive and what differences in terms of construction, seals and bearings. How would a raditator be constructed so it doesnt disintegrate. Would an electric motor be the ultimate fit and forget power source ?
Would the body be made of steel or aluminium, what treatments, would it be thicker, what else could be done to make it last.
Trim, most cars have bits of trim come adrift and worn seats, could this be stopped.
Drivetrain, what gearbox, clutch and driveshafts etc, would the suspension componetns be alloy or pressed steel, what would the bushes be made of, can bolts used in the suspension be made so they dont corrode, can the coatings used not flake off after a few years, can springs be made not to crack, can dampers be made that dont go soggy.
Electical, how would electrical systems be done to avoid failures, could redundancy be used like in aircraft to provide additional reliability, would the electrical system be simple wires or some kind of electrical bus type thing, would LED bulbs be used.
J4CKO said:
Not into the why, more the how.
What would a car designed for the best possible longevity have different to any other car ?
Would the engine have higher oil capacity, what configuration in terms of cylinders, valves, cam drive and what differences in terms of construction, seals and bearings. How would a raditator be constructed so it doesnt disintegrate. Would an electric motor be the ultimate fit and forget power source ?
Would the body be made of steel or aluminium, what treatments, would it be thicker, what else could be done to make it last.
Trim, most cars have bits of trim come adrift and worn seats, could this be stopped.
Drivetrain, what gearbox, clutch and driveshafts etc, would the suspension componetns be alloy or pressed steel, what would the bushes be made of, can bolts used in the suspension be made so they dont corrode, can the coatings used not flake off after a few years, can springs be made not to crack, can dampers be made that dont go soggy.
Electical, how would electrical systems be done to avoid failures, could redundancy be used like in aircraft to provide additional reliability, would the electrical system be simple wires or some kind of electrical bus type thing, would LED bulbs be used.
Surely for engines, an iron block large displacement low specific output OHV V8 will be the most long lasting, as it will be understressed, rather than the modern highly stressed high specific output turbo engines. What would a car designed for the best possible longevity have different to any other car ?
Would the engine have higher oil capacity, what configuration in terms of cylinders, valves, cam drive and what differences in terms of construction, seals and bearings. How would a raditator be constructed so it doesnt disintegrate. Would an electric motor be the ultimate fit and forget power source ?
Would the body be made of steel or aluminium, what treatments, would it be thicker, what else could be done to make it last.
Trim, most cars have bits of trim come adrift and worn seats, could this be stopped.
Drivetrain, what gearbox, clutch and driveshafts etc, would the suspension componetns be alloy or pressed steel, what would the bushes be made of, can bolts used in the suspension be made so they dont corrode, can the coatings used not flake off after a few years, can springs be made not to crack, can dampers be made that dont go soggy.
Electical, how would electrical systems be done to avoid failures, could redundancy be used like in aircraft to provide additional reliability, would the electrical system be simple wires or some kind of electrical bus type thing, would LED bulbs be used.
J4CKO said:
Not into the why, more the how.
What would a car designed for the best possible longevity have different to any other car ?
Would the engine have higher oil capacity, what configuration in terms of cylinders, valves, cam drive and what differences in terms of construction, seals and bearings. How would a raditator be constructed so it doesnt disintegrate. Would an electric motor be the ultimate fit and forget power source ?
Would the body be made of steel or aluminium, what treatments, would it be thicker, what else could be done to make it last.
Trim, most cars have bits of trim come adrift and worn seats, could this be stopped.
Drivetrain, what gearbox, clutch and driveshafts etc, would the suspension componetns be alloy or pressed steel, what would the bushes be made of, can bolts used in the suspension be made so they dont corrode, can the coatings used not flake off after a few years, can springs be made not to crack, can dampers be made that dont go soggy.
Electical, how would electrical systems be done to avoid failures, could redundancy be used like in aircraft to provide additional reliability, would the electrical system be simple wires or some kind of electrical bus type thing, would LED bulbs be used.
Make the whole thing modular so any broken part can be replaced easily. What would a car designed for the best possible longevity have different to any other car ?
Would the engine have higher oil capacity, what configuration in terms of cylinders, valves, cam drive and what differences in terms of construction, seals and bearings. How would a raditator be constructed so it doesnt disintegrate. Would an electric motor be the ultimate fit and forget power source ?
Would the body be made of steel or aluminium, what treatments, would it be thicker, what else could be done to make it last.
Trim, most cars have bits of trim come adrift and worn seats, could this be stopped.
Drivetrain, what gearbox, clutch and driveshafts etc, would the suspension componetns be alloy or pressed steel, what would the bushes be made of, can bolts used in the suspension be made so they dont corrode, can the coatings used not flake off after a few years, can springs be made not to crack, can dampers be made that dont go soggy.
Electical, how would electrical systems be done to avoid failures, could redundancy be used like in aircraft to provide additional reliability, would the electrical system be simple wires or some kind of electrical bus type thing, would LED bulbs be used.
Make the body and chassis aluminium.
Make the engine rev as low as possible if internal combustion, make the battery easily replaceable/serviceable if electric.
Make the seats out of kevlar.
I'm sure you could by a new 70-series Land Cruiser from the colonies today and drive it around for a million miles over 40yrs quite easily. You might have to do a cheap engine rebuild along the way, but the 40yr old airliner mentioned in the OP would have had similar major servicing/rebuilding over its lifetime.
They would be slow and uncomfortable miles but I think it is the only car designed for simplicity and reliability.
They would be slow and uncomfortable miles but I think it is the only car designed for simplicity and reliability.
Does it get serviced? Do we need everlasting brakes, clutch, chassis, gearbox?
I'm not sure what you mean.
Ultimately a car is 'consumable', it's just that different parts last longer than others.
I suppose a good start would be to ensure that the non-moving parts are everlasting and won't rust (or rot?!), eg the chassis and bodywork
But if we start to talk about moving parts, they'll surely never be 'everlasting'.
I'm not sure what you mean.
Ultimately a car is 'consumable', it's just that different parts last longer than others.
I suppose a good start would be to ensure that the non-moving parts are everlasting and won't rust (or rot?!), eg the chassis and bodywork
But if we start to talk about moving parts, they'll surely never be 'everlasting'.
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