Which rally rep?
Discussion
Ok, I'm stuck in a terrible dilemma.
I've had an Audi TT QS and a Nissan 350Z (current car) in the past 8 months. I just couldn't get on with the Audi, IMO 'twas a pile of poop. The Nissan is a great car, fast, fun, comfortable, but in my eyes is more suited to being a weekend car, the recent bad weather has been a PITA, however it's just not special enough IMO to be a weekend car.
So it's now up for sale and I'm now looking once again for a rally rep. The choice is either a Subaru Impreza STi V8 or a Mitsubishi Evo 8.
As far as price and performance on paper is concerned, both cars are pretty much equal.
My problem is, I've had a Subaru in the past and I loved it, I really wish I hadn't sold it, but hey-ho, you do these silly things. I've never had an Evo before, however I have had a passenger ride in one, I didn't feel like I liked the car as much as I did the Subaru, but I was only in it for >10 mins and I wasn't driving.
I love the Subaru's symmetrical AWD and lack of computer controlled driving hinderances. The Evo seemed to be very much computer controlled as we nearly span after hitting a puddle on a corner and what felt like the power transfer, pulled the back end out (the Subaru wouldn't have), however that may have been the driver.
I'd like to know if anyone has had long term experience of both cars and understands where I'm coming from? Also, which car is the best buy? Would I like the Evo as much as the Subaru or should I just stick to what I know?
Cheers
WorAl
Mod Edit: I've removed the link to your advert. No subtle advertising please
No link added, just editing the script to make sense.
I've had an Audi TT QS and a Nissan 350Z (current car) in the past 8 months. I just couldn't get on with the Audi, IMO 'twas a pile of poop. The Nissan is a great car, fast, fun, comfortable, but in my eyes is more suited to being a weekend car, the recent bad weather has been a PITA, however it's just not special enough IMO to be a weekend car.
So it's now up for sale and I'm now looking once again for a rally rep. The choice is either a Subaru Impreza STi V8 or a Mitsubishi Evo 8.
As far as price and performance on paper is concerned, both cars are pretty much equal.
My problem is, I've had a Subaru in the past and I loved it, I really wish I hadn't sold it, but hey-ho, you do these silly things. I've never had an Evo before, however I have had a passenger ride in one, I didn't feel like I liked the car as much as I did the Subaru, but I was only in it for >10 mins and I wasn't driving.
I love the Subaru's symmetrical AWD and lack of computer controlled driving hinderances. The Evo seemed to be very much computer controlled as we nearly span after hitting a puddle on a corner and what felt like the power transfer, pulled the back end out (the Subaru wouldn't have), however that may have been the driver.
I'd like to know if anyone has had long term experience of both cars and understands where I'm coming from? Also, which car is the best buy? Would I like the Evo as much as the Subaru or should I just stick to what I know?
Cheers
WorAl
Mod Edit: I've removed the link to your advert. No subtle advertising please
Edited by Switch on Saturday 9th February 22:17
No link added, just editing the script to make sense.
Edited by WorAl on Sunday 10th February 00:28
I'm sure whatever one you choose you'll be very happy with. both are very capable cars, as i'm sure you know.
I personally prefer the scoob just as it sounds better. The evo sounds like any other 4 cylinder with a big exhaust (not that that's a bad thing).
i take it your looking at the v8 for the wide track and dccd?
For me, if you want a special car i would go for a subaru JDM TypeRA or spec c if you can find one.
johnny
I personally prefer the scoob just as it sounds better. The evo sounds like any other 4 cylinder with a big exhaust (not that that's a bad thing).
i take it your looking at the v8 for the wide track and dccd?
For me, if you want a special car i would go for a subaru JDM TypeRA or spec c if you can find one.
johnny
Hi WorAl,
I have had Evo's for the last 5 years after trying one back to back with an STI in 2008. I preferred the sharper handling of the Evo out of the box compared to the Scoob and it felt that little bit quicker point to point. The Scoob is still a mighty car, just my preference was the Evo, added to the fact I see 20 Scoobies to every Evo I see out on the road.
You mention about the Evo being computer controlled which I think would probably be the AYC diff on the Evo. The first Evo I had was a UK spec Evo 9 FQ320 running around 400bhp and I didn't get on with the AYC at all. I then bought a 6 RS which does away with the AYC and has a normal plated diff so requires more interaction and I think you would probably prefer this as I do.
Obviously I am massively bias but I would give the Evo a try but go for an RS diff'd car. If you need any advise, get over to the MLR as its a massive resource of information.
Cheers
Tom
I have had Evo's for the last 5 years after trying one back to back with an STI in 2008. I preferred the sharper handling of the Evo out of the box compared to the Scoob and it felt that little bit quicker point to point. The Scoob is still a mighty car, just my preference was the Evo, added to the fact I see 20 Scoobies to every Evo I see out on the road.
You mention about the Evo being computer controlled which I think would probably be the AYC diff on the Evo. The first Evo I had was a UK spec Evo 9 FQ320 running around 400bhp and I didn't get on with the AYC at all. I then bought a 6 RS which does away with the AYC and has a normal plated diff so requires more interaction and I think you would probably prefer this as I do.
Obviously I am massively bias but I would give the Evo a try but go for an RS diff'd car. If you need any advise, get over to the MLR as its a massive resource of information.
Cheers
Tom
To this day I regret selling my STi (2005 car) and since then I have had a Porsche and now have an M3. They are phenomenal cars, however, I would not challenge the Evo as the better of the two. That said The scooby has so much personality and the sound track is great.
I did about 7 track days in my STi and it really redefined everything for me. The grip and power out of corners is just something else.
IMO, the 2005 cars with the wider track, high reving bullet proof 2.0ltr engine and DCCD make them the best new age cars.
I guess you need to ask yourself whether you will really expoilt the extra dynamic ability the Evo offers on public roads?!
I did about 7 track days in my STi and it really redefined everything for me. The grip and power out of corners is just something else.
IMO, the 2005 cars with the wider track, high reving bullet proof 2.0ltr engine and DCCD make them the best new age cars.
I guess you need to ask yourself whether you will really expoilt the extra dynamic ability the Evo offers on public roads?!
RobCrezz said:
The evo, so much more fun imo.
The feeling you experienced could be the ayc pushing the power to the outside rear wheel to reduce understeer. It's not a stability system or traction control, just a fancy diff.
The feeling you experienced could be the ayc pushing the power to the outside rear wheel to reduce understeer. It's not a stability system or traction control, just a fancy diff.
TomCI said:
.
You mention about the Evo being computer controlled which I think would probably be the AYC diff on the Evo. The first Evo I had was a UK spec Evo 9 FQ320 running around 400bhp and I didn't get on with the AYC at all. I then bought a 6 RS which does away with the AYC and has a normal plated diff so requires more interaction and I think you would probably prefer this as I do.
Hmmm I think these two posts have just confirmed what I should do, Subaru. It would be an Evo with AYC, that I could find for the correct money and I didn't like the feeling of power transfer one little bit. Similar to why I hated the Audi. Tho that was just sYou mention about the Evo being computer controlled which I think would probably be the AYC diff on the Evo. The first Evo I had was a UK spec Evo 9 FQ320 running around 400bhp and I didn't get on with the AYC at all. I then bought a 6 RS which does away with the AYC and has a normal plated diff so requires more interaction and I think you would probably prefer this as I do.
t. I'll still keep the Evo in mind for now just in case I fancy a change (before buying a Subaru after not liking the Evo 
) but I'd really like to have a good test drive in one just to confirm the pros and cons.There's no doubt in my mind that the Evo is an exceptionally capable car in the dry, probably more so than a Subaru, but I like the confidence the Subaru gave by not changing its personality in different weathers. You could drive it in exactly the same manner in the wet/dry/snow/ice, the only change required was more or less throttle depending on the conditions.
I've had both, Impreza for 8 years and now my Evo 8 for 2.
Loved my Scoob, first couple of weeks after selling and buying the Evo I felt a little bit disappointed with the Evo as it didn't feel quite as capable as the Impreza. Took it on a track day and never looked back.
Such a quick car in every aspect, I needed the track day to figure it all out and find the limits. Utterly brilliant, makes me smile every time I start her now.
I think only a Type C Impreza would be an equal (only my opinion!!), to a Uk Evo FQ/MR, plus the Evo is that bit rarer then an Impreza.
Have a look on the MLR for buying guides etc & don't be put off by service cost either, find a trusted Indy/specialist and its really not that expensive.
Loved my Scoob, first couple of weeks after selling and buying the Evo I felt a little bit disappointed with the Evo as it didn't feel quite as capable as the Impreza. Took it on a track day and never looked back.
Such a quick car in every aspect, I needed the track day to figure it all out and find the limits. Utterly brilliant, makes me smile every time I start her now.
I think only a Type C Impreza would be an equal (only my opinion!!), to a Uk Evo FQ/MR, plus the Evo is that bit rarer then an Impreza.
Have a look on the MLR for buying guides etc & don't be put off by service cost either, find a trusted Indy/specialist and its really not that expensive.
Session8 said:
I've had both, Impreza for 8 years and now my Evo 8 for 2.
Loved my Scoob, first couple of weeks after selling and buying the Evo I felt a little bit disappointed with the Evo as it didn't feel quite as capable as the Impreza. Took it on a track day and never looked back.
Such a quick car in every aspect, I needed the track day to figure it all out and find the limits. Utterly brilliant, makes me smile every time I start her now.
I think only a Type C Impreza would be an equal (only my opinion!!), to a Uk Evo FQ/MR, plus the Evo is that bit rarer then an Impreza.
Have a look on the MLR for buying guides etc & don't be put off by service cost either, find a trusted Indy/specialist and its really not that expensive.
This is a good point. To really see and feel the difference you need to be on a track. Personally, I can't see how you could exploit the Evo over the STi on UK roads.... Having said that, I save my driving hard time for the track Loved my Scoob, first couple of weeks after selling and buying the Evo I felt a little bit disappointed with the Evo as it didn't feel quite as capable as the Impreza. Took it on a track day and never looked back.
Such a quick car in every aspect, I needed the track day to figure it all out and find the limits. Utterly brilliant, makes me smile every time I start her now.
I think only a Type C Impreza would be an equal (only my opinion!!), to a Uk Evo FQ/MR, plus the Evo is that bit rarer then an Impreza.
Have a look on the MLR for buying guides etc & don't be put off by service cost either, find a trusted Indy/specialist and its really not that expensive.
WorAl said:
I love the Subaru's symmetrical AWD and lack of computer controlled driving hinderances. The Evo seemed to be very much computer controlled as we nearly span after hitting a puddle on a corner and what felt like the power transfer, pulled the back end out (the Subaru wouldn't have), however that may have been the driver.
It might be how you're describing it bit it sounds like lift-off oversteer, which can happen in any car. It is nonsense that the Evo 'drives itself' - as many put it. The subaru and the evo are both 4wd cars. One just has cleverer diffs. If you add power in the evo then it will tighten its line.
You need to drive one yourself, to make your own mind up.
rsv gone! said:
WorAl said:
I love the Subaru's symmetrical AWD and lack of computer controlled driving hinderances. The Evo seemed to be very much computer controlled as we nearly span after hitting a puddle on a corner and what felt like the power transfer, pulled the back end out (the Subaru wouldn't have), however that may have been the driver.
It might be how you're describing it bit it sounds like lift-off oversteer, which can happen in any car. It is nonsense that the Evo 'drives itself' - as many put it. The subaru and the evo are both 4wd cars. One just has cleverer diffs. If you add power in the evo then it will tighten its line.
You need to drive one yourself, to make your own mind up.
The grip through the 3 bends was nothing but mind boggling, this was on dry road. As we get to the junction at the bottom, we can see that there's no one around so he keeps his foot down as we turn left out of the junction, it's a long sweeping bend and half way round (where we couldn't see on the approach) was a patch of standing water. The rear inside wheel went through the edge of the water and instantly the back end stepped out of line.
There was no lift off the power, no sudden steering movement, the back end just skipped out, a bit like a RWD car hitting a damp patch. I can only remember thinking to myself, that'd never happen in a Subaru as the diff always has its power equally split. It's always bothered me about evo's since then as I couldn't fancy that happening when out having a play on some twisties. Was it just the driver or could it have been the car?
boo Switch, boo. I'm sorry, I just want to get into one of these cars 
WorAl said:
There was no lift off the power, no sudden steering movement, the back end just skipped out, a bit like a RWD car hitting a damp patch. I can only remember thinking to myself, that'd never happen in a Subaru as the diff always has its power equally split. It's always bothered me about evo's since then as I couldn't fancy that happening when out having a play on some twisties. Was it just the driver or could it have been the car?
Having been in a few Evos in a range of conditions (some pretty poor) that doesn't sound right, are you sure he didn't lift a tad and cause a power-shuffle-around action in the diff? The ones I've been in, though sadly never driven, have been very sharp and sticky, the G force you can feel in the passenger seat is impressive. That said, unless you've got great visibility of the road ahead and good confidence you aren't being spied on by the police, the Impreza will be just as quick. On a closed road, if you were rallying both cars on a sort of time trial scenario, the Evos would probably be quicker than the Imprezas, but day to day both have more grip than you could realistically challenge often on the road.Normally I'd say track one down and get a drive, but short of finding one in a local dealership as a PX and getting a test drive, you'd have to do a bit of timewasting and get a test drive on a privately owned car to decide if you really liked it or not.
In the favour of Imprezas, some think they look better, and they definitely have a more distinctive sound. They don't have as intensive service schedule as Evos.
In the Evo corner, you have a car that I think is sharper, looks better to my eyes at least and feels more special. The engine does not have a hugely individual note or the character of the Impreza engine, one turbo inline 4 will sound much like another to a degree but with an exhaust upgrade they have a smile inducing pop and crackle and a satisfying thrum.
Both cars will seem very quick and planted after a 350Z, so I doubt you'd be disappointed whichever you choose. If I was in your position I'd want an Evo though.
WorAl said:
There was no lift off the power, no sudden steering movement, the back end just skipped out, a bit like a RWD car hitting a damp patch. I can only remember thinking to myself, that'd never happen in a Subaru as the diff always has its power equally split. It's always bothered me about evo's since then as I couldn't fancy that happening when out having a play on some twisties. Was it just the driver or could it have been the car?
The point of the ATC system is that it adds power to the outside rear wheel in a sweeping corner, to reduce under steer. This may have contributed. I've done 95,000 miles in my evo. I also have access to an identical car. My car will handle very early application of lots of power on wet roundabout exits. The other car would twitch a bit, driven in the same fashion. The difference was worn tyres on the latter car. Evos are very sensitive to tyre condition.
Incidentally, I reckon the Impreza would have under steered if it hit the same set of circumstances. (I've driven a couple of STIs).
Edited by rsv gone! on Sunday 10th February 08:26
Impreza's do understeer a bit, but you can dial that out with some cheap modifications. Also, do your homework on the knocking shocks issue, as it will occur. I put Tein coilovers on which were great on the track, but jarring on public roads.
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/K...
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/K...
paulmoonraker said:
Impreza's do understeer a bit, but you can dial that out with some cheap modifications. Also, do your homework on the knocking shocks issue, as it will occur. I put Tein coilovers on which were great on the track, but jarring on public roads.
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/K...
Yes, I had that problem with my first one. This is another concern I have, I know quite a bit about Subaru's, I've studied them and was going get ecutek software before my last one died to map it myself. I know nothing about evo's, which is a bit of a concern.http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/K...
I know the Subaru's can understeer, but I just remember think that wouldn't have happened given the circumstances. It may have been rose-tinted specs, it may have been the car, it may haven the driver, I'm not sure. Think I'm going to have to try find one locally to test drive.
I suspect any car would have stepped out had the rear hit standing water TBH.
My VII RS is rather unique in that it has full AYC - it makes for a faster car point to point although not as reliable for massive power cars which is why the RS diffs are popular with the TA cars - coupled with a Grp N ACD/AYC tarmac ECU.
This makes the car more 'pointy' than a standard car - the geo is also set-up to be more pointy too - but never once have I had the car step out in the way you describe. It will wag it's tail on very slippery surfaces but not in an unexpected way.
I have a mate with a Grp N rally-car STi and TBH there is nothing in it down a b road between the two cars .
IMO You won't be disappointed with either car. Buy whatever you like the look / sound of.
One thing to note though is the Evo is 50:50 torque split and will only shuffle torque across the rear axle, not for/aft. The ACD acts like a LSD between the front and rear axles.
My VII RS is rather unique in that it has full AYC - it makes for a faster car point to point although not as reliable for massive power cars which is why the RS diffs are popular with the TA cars - coupled with a Grp N ACD/AYC tarmac ECU.
This makes the car more 'pointy' than a standard car - the geo is also set-up to be more pointy too - but never once have I had the car step out in the way you describe. It will wag it's tail on very slippery surfaces but not in an unexpected way.
I have a mate with a Grp N rally-car STi and TBH there is nothing in it down a b road between the two cars .
IMO You won't be disappointed with either car. Buy whatever you like the look / sound of.
One thing to note though is the Evo is 50:50 torque split and will only shuffle torque across the rear axle, not for/aft. The ACD acts like a LSD between the front and rear axles.
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