Are performance cars doomed (except expensive ones)
Discussion
Was talking to friend last night about the way modern cars are heading and more specifically the more affordable ones. It seems that manufacturers are having to yield to corporate pressure to make cars for the masses and it seems with the E.U. and H&S forever sticking their oars in cars are becoming more sanitized and 'white goods' like. While the more expensive sports car marques wont get away with being immune they will have to shape themselves more strategically. The likes of the BRZ and GT86 are a welcome break will more manufacturers be doing the same? I hope so because i cant help but feel that even the humble Hot hatch is beginning to struggle now with bloated bonnets and bumpers and performance saloons are even disapearing or changing to other directions and markets. By all means please prove me wrong?
Nope
and nor is the fun car
I think the green revolution could save us
Ultimately the thing that hurts a car most for being green is being overly lardy so to make a car more green is to put it on a diet
Combine that with stiff bodies for crash protection and a better understanding of suspension dynamics and it is only a small step to make cars fun
and nor is the fun car
I think the green revolution could save us
Ultimately the thing that hurts a car most for being green is being overly lardy so to make a car more green is to put it on a diet
Combine that with stiff bodies for crash protection and a better understanding of suspension dynamics and it is only a small step to make cars fun
There will always be a market for fun affordable cars. But it's changed over the years and will continue to change.
Back in the hay day it'd have been an MGA or MGB, with things like Midgets and Spitfires.
This progressed into more sporting saloon and family cars such as certain hotted up Escorts, Triumph Dolly's, 2500PI's and the like.
This then morphed into the compact hothacth era such as the Golf, Metro, 205.
These then expanded in larger family cars (the same market segment as the Triumphs and like of old
Such as Focus MK2, Astra and so on.
Today's trend is moving back towards smaller compact hatches (for the UK market). Less power maybe, but dynamically often better.
But remember on the world scene or in other markets like the US things are quite different. A bargain basement Mustang V6 comes with 305hp today and handling to embarrass a BMW M car. And for relatively attainable prices.
But this has often been true of many models in the US and there's no shortage of choice. Same applies to the JDM and to other markets such as Oz and parts of Asia.
Really the EU and UK are the somewhat dead and dull zones in mass produced fun cars. It seems on the whole we just don't want them.
In the UK there is of course a thriving kit car and small scale production sports car market. But many of the specialist marks (TVR, Marcos, etc) have passed by now
Again more proof your average Brit really doesn't want affordable performance and would rather do without, or if they have the money buy something expensive and German instead.
Back in the hay day it'd have been an MGA or MGB, with things like Midgets and Spitfires.
This progressed into more sporting saloon and family cars such as certain hotted up Escorts, Triumph Dolly's, 2500PI's and the like.
This then morphed into the compact hothacth era such as the Golf, Metro, 205.
These then expanded in larger family cars (the same market segment as the Triumphs and like of old
Such as Focus MK2, Astra and so on.Today's trend is moving back towards smaller compact hatches (for the UK market). Less power maybe, but dynamically often better.
But remember on the world scene or in other markets like the US things are quite different. A bargain basement Mustang V6 comes with 305hp today and handling to embarrass a BMW M car. And for relatively attainable prices.
But this has often been true of many models in the US and there's no shortage of choice. Same applies to the JDM and to other markets such as Oz and parts of Asia.
Really the EU and UK are the somewhat dead and dull zones in mass produced fun cars. It seems on the whole we just don't want them.
In the UK there is of course a thriving kit car and small scale production sports car market. But many of the specialist marks (TVR, Marcos, etc) have passed by now
Again more proof your average Brit really doesn't want affordable performance and would rather do without, or if they have the money buy something expensive and German instead.Fittster said:
300bhp/ton said:
Back in the hay day it'd have been an MGA or MGB, with things like Midgets and Spitfires.
.
I don't think the MGA of MGB were ever that cheap. I'd be interest to see how their original list prices compared to those of period saloons for volume firms..
As others have alluded ot above, we'll always have perofrmnace cars, but they will change. We're already seeing this with more and more affordable performance cars having smaller turbo charged engines, rather than big V6/V8s. In a few years there will probably be some cracking cars running hybrid powertains, but we're not quite there yet.
dave_s13 said:
300bhp/ton said:
........ A bargain basement Mustang V6 comes with 305hp today and handling to embarrass a BMW M car. ...........
I've not been in a Mustang but I'll choose not to take your word for that!I was shocked to see the new 535D can get to 60 in 5.5 seconds and return urban MPG figures of over 40. 60 or so on a run.
That is faster than any V8 i can think of made before 2010 (normal cars) so i think speed will never be an issue.
The only thing we may loose is the proper sound.
That is faster than any V8 i can think of made before 2010 (normal cars) so i think speed will never be an issue.
The only thing we may loose is the proper sound.
bimmer528 said:
I was shocked to see the new 535D can get to 60 in 5.5 seconds and return urban MPG figures of over 40. 60 or so on a run.
That is faster than any V8 i can think of made before 2010 (normal cars) so i think speed will never be an issue.
The only thing we may loose is the proper sound.
When a 535d gets 40mpg in town I shall eat my left toe. A 2009 535d gets around 20-30mpg in town, 30 probably being driven ever so gently That is faster than any V8 i can think of made before 2010 (normal cars) so i think speed will never be an issue.
The only thing we may loose is the proper sound.
300bhp/ton said:
dave_s13 said:
300bhp/ton said:
........ A bargain basement Mustang V6 comes with 305hp today and handling to embarrass a BMW M car. ...........
I've not been in a Mustang but I'll choose not to take your word for that!Mr2Mike said:
Fittster said:
While people (not people on PH of course) want status symbols there will be performance cars.
So is people simply want performance cars without the status symbol they won't be made any more?How many performance cars ever venture on a track or go anywhere near there limits (bar accelerating on a motorway slip road).
300bhp/ton said:
dave_s13 said:
300bhp/ton said:
........ A bargain basement Mustang V6 comes with 305hp today and handling to embarrass a BMW M car. ...........
I've not been in a Mustang but I'll choose not to take your word for that!dave_s13 said:
Fair enough but I've driven a Z4m and been passengered in a M3 being driven by a hooligan. I've never been in a Mustang but they must be bloody good to get near that!!
I spent two weeks with one in Hawaii (v6). It was a slow, slow, joke. Then two weeks with a v8 in Vegas. It was a much faster joke. No where near a M3. I hired these as always wanted one and thought I'd try it out. It's put me off for life...Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff