Which V8 performance saloon?
Discussion
So, I'm hoping to be in the market for a weekend car very shortly, and with two kinds already and a third likely at some point in the future, I have decided that I need a saloon car. On top of this, I have decided that it must be a V8, because for me they make the best noise and I love the torque, and also because I want to feel like I am in something special even with the family on board at low speeds. Car will mostly be used for fast-raod driving, but may do the occasional track or drifting day. Budget is no more than £12,000, but ideally £10,000.
So my list is as follows:
- Alpina B10
- E39 M5
- C55 AMG
- E55 AMG (w211)
I know there are others (MG, VXR8, various Audis etc...) but these are my 4. So I'm interested to hear peoples opinions.
The rarity and exclusivity of the Alpina really appeals, but then it is probably the least sporting car here. I love the thought of a 5.5 litre V8 in a small car like the C55, but the E55 would cream it on the straights! Clearly the M5 is the only one with a manual 'box, which is appealing, but then I don't think the engine is quite as mean and moody as either of the AMG units.
Your thoughts and opinions welcomed!
Thanks
So my list is as follows:
- Alpina B10
- E39 M5
- C55 AMG
- E55 AMG (w211)
I know there are others (MG, VXR8, various Audis etc...) but these are my 4. So I'm interested to hear peoples opinions.
The rarity and exclusivity of the Alpina really appeals, but then it is probably the least sporting car here. I love the thought of a 5.5 litre V8 in a small car like the C55, but the E55 would cream it on the straights! Clearly the M5 is the only one with a manual 'box, which is appealing, but then I don't think the engine is quite as mean and moody as either of the AMG units.
Your thoughts and opinions welcomed!
Thanks
rainmasterb said:
Clearly the M5 is the only one with a manual 'box, which is appealing, but then I don't think the engine is quite as mean and moody as either of the AMG units.
It is with the right exhaust / X pipe on it and it'll rev round to 7000, so the fun just keeps building 
Easily the best driver's car of that list but unless you get a minter, you'll potentially have a lot of bills to contend with. The big end bearings tend to need doing on these cars too, which is £1500+ job. Expensive rear tyres (275s), expensive brakes, averages 18-20mpg, drinks oil, dash display loses pixels, 2nd gear hard to engage sometimes, the list goes on and on....
Budget £12K for a top example, then put aside £5K a year to keep it on the road.
I hate to say it, but I think the Mercs would give you fewer headaches.
rainmasterb said:
So, I'm hoping to be in the market for a weekend car very shortly, and with two kinds already and a third likely at some point in the future, I have decided that I need a saloon car. On top of this, I have decided that it must be a V8, because for me they make the best noise and I love the torque, and also because I want to feel like I am in something special even with the family on board at low speeds. Car will mostly be used for fast-raod driving, but may do the occasional track or drifting day. Budget is no more than £12,000, but ideally £10,000.
So my list is as follows:
- Alpina B10
- E39 M5
- C55 AMG
- E55 AMG (w211)
I know there are others (MG, VXR8, various Audis etc...) but these are my 4. So I'm interested to hear peoples opinions.
The rarity and exclusivity of the Alpina really appeals, but then it is probably the least sporting car here. I love the thought of a 5.5 litre V8 in a small car like the C55, but the E55 would cream it on the straights! Clearly the M5 is the only one with a manual 'box, which is appealing, but then I don't think the engine is quite as mean and moody as either of the AMG units.
Your thoughts and opinions welcomed!
Thanks
So basically it's going to be a BMW or Merc not matter what then So my list is as follows:
- Alpina B10
- E39 M5
- C55 AMG
- E55 AMG (w211)
I know there are others (MG, VXR8, various Audis etc...) but these are my 4. So I'm interested to hear peoples opinions.
The rarity and exclusivity of the Alpina really appeals, but then it is probably the least sporting car here. I love the thought of a 5.5 litre V8 in a small car like the C55, but the E55 would cream it on the straights! Clearly the M5 is the only one with a manual 'box, which is appealing, but then I don't think the engine is quite as mean and moody as either of the AMG units.
Your thoughts and opinions welcomed!
Thanks
I say drive them all and see which you like the most.
Have had one of those on your list of not to look at's so can compare with one on your list to look at as I own one of those.
I currently have an e39 M5. Bought it 7 weeks ago as an AUC.
If you are going for one go for a face lift model, you should be looking at one with CD Satnav which has a wide screen. It will have all the toys but there are some variants such as double glazing and sun roof but the key thin with the facelifts is an acctuator pump for the VANOS.
VANOS is reliable, don't panic. MAF's can fail but easy to test.
On the road whilst in 2nd doing 30mph keep a constant throttle position and press the sport button. You shuld feel a kick like a VTEC yo moment, what happens is the throttle position on the bodies gets mapped to a 1:1 input from the throttle pedal when sport is engaged.
Test the car from cold, the VANOS might sound a little rattly but not much so - mine makes no noise as such. When starting from cold the air pump will raise exhaust boom levels, wait for that to settle down before listening further.
MPG I currently have an overall average of 23mpg which is mostly based on some spirited fun runs interspresed with commuting which is motorway. I regularly do SW to NE and average 24mpg at a typical crusing speed of +/- 10 over 70. That also has some enthusiastic blats too.
The boot is cavernous, or rather, much better inside than would appear from the outside.
For a 12 year old car the interior is almost like new, solid with no rattles. OK the dash is a little dated but very functional and ergonmical. The older idrive style control nob is very easy to work.
Brakes are very good for road, handling is sublime on oem suspension. Grip and handling is excellent, drove through winter with not so much bother. The DSC system does reign in the situations very fast so there is no real ability for any slidey action with it on but it does work very well considering age. The slip diff works, it just works pretty damned well but they can weep from the seals.
Facelift will have widescreen (if tv/satnav fitted), will have angel eyes (easy to update on pre-facelift) and will have newer styled rear lights. Don't discount a pre-face lift though, both excellent cars just the facelifts look a little fresher, buy on condition.
No spare wheel or tyre, in boot there is a tray, under the tray should be the M-repair system or whatever it is called, it uses a compressor to fill the tyre with gunk then an 2nd system to inflate the tyre to correct pressure.
Interior the rears are adequate for 2 adults, 3 if needed and leg space is adequate but not amazing.
Servicing is not time dependant but based on the service lights. When you turn on the car you should see a bar graph with 4 yellow lights which indicate a count down to the next service. Service runs in:
Sched 1
Oil
Sched 2
Oil
repeat.
Oil is a specific formula, you can get great deals from Eurocarparts but I also find the BMW dealer is very good at prices on consumables.
If you are buying a car which claims full BMWSH then you can go to your local dealer to confirm the history or call BMW but there might be a cost associated with it.
Insurance is reasonable, I pay £420 fc but have a long claim free bonus (well I did until a lorry tyre exploded infront of me the other week).
Fantastic car, we are looking forward to our European road trips in it this year. The gearing is just spot on, each gear is just the right ratio.
I currently have an e39 M5. Bought it 7 weeks ago as an AUC.
If you are going for one go for a face lift model, you should be looking at one with CD Satnav which has a wide screen. It will have all the toys but there are some variants such as double glazing and sun roof but the key thin with the facelifts is an acctuator pump for the VANOS.
VANOS is reliable, don't panic. MAF's can fail but easy to test.
On the road whilst in 2nd doing 30mph keep a constant throttle position and press the sport button. You shuld feel a kick like a VTEC yo moment, what happens is the throttle position on the bodies gets mapped to a 1:1 input from the throttle pedal when sport is engaged.
Test the car from cold, the VANOS might sound a little rattly but not much so - mine makes no noise as such. When starting from cold the air pump will raise exhaust boom levels, wait for that to settle down before listening further.
MPG I currently have an overall average of 23mpg which is mostly based on some spirited fun runs interspresed with commuting which is motorway. I regularly do SW to NE and average 24mpg at a typical crusing speed of +/- 10 over 70. That also has some enthusiastic blats too.
The boot is cavernous, or rather, much better inside than would appear from the outside.
For a 12 year old car the interior is almost like new, solid with no rattles. OK the dash is a little dated but very functional and ergonmical. The older idrive style control nob is very easy to work.
Brakes are very good for road, handling is sublime on oem suspension. Grip and handling is excellent, drove through winter with not so much bother. The DSC system does reign in the situations very fast so there is no real ability for any slidey action with it on but it does work very well considering age. The slip diff works, it just works pretty damned well but they can weep from the seals.
Facelift will have widescreen (if tv/satnav fitted), will have angel eyes (easy to update on pre-facelift) and will have newer styled rear lights. Don't discount a pre-face lift though, both excellent cars just the facelifts look a little fresher, buy on condition.
No spare wheel or tyre, in boot there is a tray, under the tray should be the M-repair system or whatever it is called, it uses a compressor to fill the tyre with gunk then an 2nd system to inflate the tyre to correct pressure.
Interior the rears are adequate for 2 adults, 3 if needed and leg space is adequate but not amazing.
Servicing is not time dependant but based on the service lights. When you turn on the car you should see a bar graph with 4 yellow lights which indicate a count down to the next service. Service runs in:
Sched 1
Oil
Sched 2
Oil
repeat.
Oil is a specific formula, you can get great deals from Eurocarparts but I also find the BMW dealer is very good at prices on consumables.
If you are buying a car which claims full BMWSH then you can go to your local dealer to confirm the history or call BMW but there might be a cost associated with it.
Insurance is reasonable, I pay £420 fc but have a long claim free bonus (well I did until a lorry tyre exploded infront of me the other week).
Fantastic car, we are looking forward to our European road trips in it this year. The gearing is just spot on, each gear is just the right ratio.
Also to add, the gear box is agricultural when cold but never had any issues engaging any gears. Drinks oil? The face lift models certainly dont seem to, I topped mine up 3000 miles ago and guess where the level is now?
Dead pixels, mine has none (touch wood) but they can be repaired, they are based on nearly 20 year old kit so occasionally pixels might disappear.
Great thing is, its a manual if the box goes just replace it unlike an auto which I would personally never buy again for any car I expect as a long termer. Do not listen to anyone that says sealed for life.
Dead pixels, mine has none (touch wood) but they can be repaired, they are based on nearly 20 year old kit so occasionally pixels might disappear.
Great thing is, its a manual if the box goes just replace it unlike an auto which I would personally never buy again for any car I expect as a long termer. Do not listen to anyone that says sealed for life.
Some interesting comments already.
But, having been involved with the development of the original Jaguar V8 by Ford, and the subsequent further development up to the present 5,0L Supercharged (I run a 2011 XFR), I can tell you that only Lexus and Jaguar/Ford engines, after some very early minor teething issues, are engineered for long life.
Certainly the BMW unit had, and to some extent still has issues.
The Mercedes unit was also not well engineered until very recently.
In your price range you need to be very aware of this.
But, having been involved with the development of the original Jaguar V8 by Ford, and the subsequent further development up to the present 5,0L Supercharged (I run a 2011 XFR), I can tell you that only Lexus and Jaguar/Ford engines, after some very early minor teething issues, are engineered for long life.
Certainly the BMW unit had, and to some extent still has issues.
The Mercedes unit was also not well engineered until very recently.
In your price range you need to be very aware of this.
DaveEssex said:
Some interesting comments already.
But, having been involved with the development of the original Jaguar V8 by Ford, and the subsequent further development up to the present 5,0L Supercharged (I run a 2011 XFR), I can tell you that only Lexus and Jaguar/Ford engines, after some very early minor teething issues, are engineered for long life.
Certainly the BMW unit had, and to some extent still has issues.
The Mercedes unit was also not well engineered until very recently.
In your price range you need to be very aware of this.
Be off with you to the numerous Jaguar owners club forums and read the thread on the reliable v8 of which you speak.But, having been involved with the development of the original Jaguar V8 by Ford, and the subsequent further development up to the present 5,0L Supercharged (I run a 2011 XFR), I can tell you that only Lexus and Jaguar/Ford engines, after some very early minor teething issues, are engineered for long life.
Certainly the BMW unit had, and to some extent still has issues.
The Mercedes unit was also not well engineered until very recently.
In your price range you need to be very aware of this.
I've got a B10 (as my handle suggests) the six rather than the eight but driven a few V8's. Haven't driven the Merc's although got nothing against them, I'd rather like a C63 estate next but I digress. Either a B10 v8/v8s or an M5 will make you smile but they are a bit different in therms of who they were originally marketed at.
The B10 has a fair bit of the M5's performance - there are some shoot outs on youtube you can watch. They don't make as much noise but the handling on the road is excellent, the economy is not bad for a fastish V8 and apart from the tires, most of the parts are standard BMW rather than M so they cost less to run and insure. The main thing to watch out for is the head gasket in the older cars (they were actually made of paper and go around 100k miles unless replaced) but the newer ones have a metal gasket which is fine - and the gearboxes which benefit from a service. Check the history and ask on the Alpinaregister.com if in doubt - most cars are known or discussed on the forum.
There are a few v8s's on the market at the moment. Great cars and usually nicely optioned but watch out for the brembo discs. I think they are about £1k a corner to replace. The silver one on pistonheads classifieds belonged to guy at work. I usually passed him on the M25 so I don't think it lead an overly stressed life and they can handle huge miles. The Alpinaregister community is friendly and full of good advice if you go down that route.
The B10 has a fair bit of the M5's performance - there are some shoot outs on youtube you can watch. They don't make as much noise but the handling on the road is excellent, the economy is not bad for a fastish V8 and apart from the tires, most of the parts are standard BMW rather than M so they cost less to run and insure. The main thing to watch out for is the head gasket in the older cars (they were actually made of paper and go around 100k miles unless replaced) but the newer ones have a metal gasket which is fine - and the gearboxes which benefit from a service. Check the history and ask on the Alpinaregister.com if in doubt - most cars are known or discussed on the forum.
There are a few v8s's on the market at the moment. Great cars and usually nicely optioned but watch out for the brembo discs. I think they are about £1k a corner to replace. The silver one on pistonheads classifieds belonged to guy at work. I usually passed him on the M25 so I don't think it lead an overly stressed life and they can handle huge miles. The Alpinaregister community is friendly and full of good advice if you go down that route.
Hair Flick said:
Be off with you to the numerous Jaguar owners club forums and read the thread on the reliable v8 of which you speak.
Been there, done that, and seen the warranty figurers for all V8's mentioned, and they tell a very different story to what you are implying.Facts don't lie.
People are easily influenced by heresay.
Perhaps you?
DaveEssex said:
Been there, done that, and seen the warranty figurers for all V8's mentioned, and they tell a very different story to what you are implying.
Facts don't lie.
People are easily influenced by heresay.
Perhaps you?
I bought an M5 with VANOS and you think I am influenced with heresay? Facts don't lie.
People are easily influenced by heresay.
Perhaps you?
DaveEssex said:
Been there, done that, and seen the warranty figurers for all V8's mentioned, and they tell a very different story to what you are implying.
Facts don't lie.
People are easily influenced by heresay.
Perhaps you?
IF you are prepared to make statements its great if you can back them up. I wont argue with the fact that engines from all brands can have problems. I offered ownership advice to the chap on one of the car on the list and you wade in, fart in the room then leave.Facts don't lie.
People are easily influenced by heresay.
Perhaps you?
Please post the statistics for engine failure rates on the 4 listed above and those of which you talk about and link to the publications.
Ellieb10 said:
The main thing to watch out for is the head gasket in the older cars (they were actually made of paper and go around 100k miles unless replaced) but the newer ones have a metal gasket which is fine.
Check the timing chain tensioner too.Personal experience, catastrophic failure.
DaveEssex said:
Advise suggests knowledge of the wider population of cars in the market.
Perhaps you meant "in my limited opinion".
Then perhaps you should educate us a little further with your industriy insider information? You've offered no input or help, I have. I also have a very long car ownership history mostly V8's so I've been around the small block when it comes to themPerhaps you meant "in my limited opinion".
Hi, I bought an E60 550i M-Sport manual last April, within the price band you mention. Like you I was set on a v8, and I chose the 550i over the E39 M5 as I thought the modernity of the E60 would be nice after a very long spell in a (much-loved) E36 325i.
Lovely engine the 4.8, enjoying it very much. It's a nice spec too (comfort seats, Pro satnav, active xenons, extended lighting etc), and can deliver 27mpg on a long run. I would call it a relaxed drive, but it can really shift. Although it's not an M car, the engine makes each drive an occasion.
Lovely engine the 4.8, enjoying it very much. It's a nice spec too (comfort seats, Pro satnav, active xenons, extended lighting etc), and can deliver 27mpg on a long run. I would call it a relaxed drive, but it can really shift. Although it's not an M car, the engine makes each drive an occasion.
jones325i said:
Hi, I bought an E60 550i M-Sport manual last April, within the price band you mention. Like you I was set on a v8, and I chose the 550i over the E39 M5 as I thought the modernity of the E60 would be nice after a very long spell in a (much-loved) E36 325i.
Lovely engine the 4.8, enjoying it very much. It's a nice spec too (comfort seats, Pro satnav, active xenons, extended lighting etc), and can deliver 27mpg on a long run. I would call it a relaxed drive, but it can really shift. Although it's not an M car, the engine makes each drive an occasion.
Id be surprised if there was much, if anything, between the 550i and the e39 M5 except the lack of an M badgeLovely engine the 4.8, enjoying it very much. It's a nice spec too (comfort seats, Pro satnav, active xenons, extended lighting etc), and can deliver 27mpg on a long run. I would call it a relaxed drive, but it can really shift. Although it's not an M car, the engine makes each drive an occasion.
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