FF Coupes Vs Hatchbacks
Discussion
Always wondered what the appeal of these things were..
Are they all show but ultimately a flawed package?
Can they provide entertainment in their own unique way that must be experienced first hand?
well today I did my usual commute in a borrowed Hyundai Coupe mk3 2.0
20mins of m'way driving followed by another 20mins down some excellent B roads
fist impressions of it was that compared to my hatchback it cruises on the motorway effortlessly compared to my rattlebox my hatchback, and find that it seems to want to sit at about 80 leptons on a cruise
ofter that I had the Banzai B road section
Full of technical sections that I normally enjoyed as a challenge flat out in 3rd or climbing up through the revs in 2nd sprinting through a quick left-right-left sequence of bends finishing with a late apex, battling with traction issues; understeer, lift off oversteer, keeping enough momentum over the bumpy twisty roads to perform that vital overtake in the one good passing spot before hitting the fast sweepers.
I could basically take them flat out in top end of 4th and not lift until the road ends some 4mins later all the while feeling the effects of high speed understeer and a twitchy back end on the down hill sections and over the large bumps.
This thing just yompped the same technical sections with minimal effort, almost point and squirt and i found i had to go much much faster to approach the same levels of interaction, understeer must have been available.. but i didnt find any at the speeds i was willing to attain. after that i chickened out before I reached the limits of the car on the fast sweeper sections unfortunately ( first time driving it remember )
all the while the back end felt very planted and refused to be unsettled, and the steering satisfyingly heavy.
whats my point in all this? i dont really know, but having ignored these FF coupes as a total irrelevance, maybe they are better than their resale values let on?
maybe their just better than Rover Metros
Slapping on some skinnier tyres to reduce grip to playful levels maybe this could end up being an excellent plaything that can dance on the limit and provide much enjoyment.
although i still dont know what they offer over the equivalent hatchback lol
i.e
vs
one of many examples, but you get the point.
Are they all show but ultimately a flawed package?
Can they provide entertainment in their own unique way that must be experienced first hand?
well today I did my usual commute in a borrowed Hyundai Coupe mk3 2.0
20mins of m'way driving followed by another 20mins down some excellent B roads
fist impressions of it was that compared to my hatchback it cruises on the motorway effortlessly compared to my rattlebox my hatchback, and find that it seems to want to sit at about 80 leptons on a cruise
ofter that I had the Banzai B road section
Full of technical sections that I normally enjoyed as a challenge flat out in 3rd or climbing up through the revs in 2nd sprinting through a quick left-right-left sequence of bends finishing with a late apex, battling with traction issues; understeer, lift off oversteer, keeping enough momentum over the bumpy twisty roads to perform that vital overtake in the one good passing spot before hitting the fast sweepers.
I could basically take them flat out in top end of 4th and not lift until the road ends some 4mins later all the while feeling the effects of high speed understeer and a twitchy back end on the down hill sections and over the large bumps.
This thing just yompped the same technical sections with minimal effort, almost point and squirt and i found i had to go much much faster to approach the same levels of interaction, understeer must have been available.. but i didnt find any at the speeds i was willing to attain. after that i chickened out before I reached the limits of the car on the fast sweeper sections unfortunately ( first time driving it remember )
all the while the back end felt very planted and refused to be unsettled, and the steering satisfyingly heavy.
whats my point in all this? i dont really know, but having ignored these FF coupes as a total irrelevance, maybe they are better than their resale values let on?
maybe their just better than Rover Metros
Slapping on some skinnier tyres to reduce grip to playful levels maybe this could end up being an excellent plaything that can dance on the limit and provide much enjoyment.
although i still dont know what they offer over the equivalent hatchback lol
i.e
vs
one of many examples, but you get the point.
Edited by SystemParanoia on Wednesday 20th February 21:17
The Hyundai is a massively underrated car, especially in the handling stakes. I loved mine and remember it really just seeming to pummel the roads into submission and gripping often far beyond my bravery. Eventually you do up your limits and find the cars limit but it's a little intimidating and the back end snaps out fast if you lose it. Mine was seriously not keen on wet roads, changing the tyres made a massive difference though but then it was on P6000's to start with so that maybe explains it.
Having said all that, it depends what you compare it to. You seem to be comparing it to an Astra from the days when they were not well considered in the handling stakes. My Ford KA was more fun to drive, my MX5 raised the bar (if not the grip levels) in terms of handling to a level I couldn't even imagine before that point. Try a Ford Focus, the MK1 flavour, down that same road. You honestly won't believe how good a basic boring hatchback is when it's got a well designed chassis.
My only problem with the Hyundai was it just wasn't playful enough for my liking but that didn't stop it being a really good car.
Having said all that, it depends what you compare it to. You seem to be comparing it to an Astra from the days when they were not well considered in the handling stakes. My Ford KA was more fun to drive, my MX5 raised the bar (if not the grip levels) in terms of handling to a level I couldn't even imagine before that point. Try a Ford Focus, the MK1 flavour, down that same road. You honestly won't believe how good a basic boring hatchback is when it's got a well designed chassis.
My only problem with the Hyundai was it just wasn't playful enough for my liking but that didn't stop it being a really good car.
I ran a 2.0 Hyundai Coupe for about 6 months - my first non-european car.
I liked the spec - full leather, aircon, cruise electric sunroof etc etc all good. Very reliable, good heater in the cold, good aircon in the heat.
Disliked the thrashy engine, rattles from the doors, poor headroom, absolutely woeful headlights.
They're not a bad buy as it goes - like most jap/korean type cars you get a lot of spec for your dosh - but in terms of engine/handling and being fun to drive nothing special.
Could even get a German Shepherd in the boot if she ducked down a bit
I liked the spec - full leather, aircon, cruise electric sunroof etc etc all good. Very reliable, good heater in the cold, good aircon in the heat.
Disliked the thrashy engine, rattles from the doors, poor headroom, absolutely woeful headlights.
They're not a bad buy as it goes - like most jap/korean type cars you get a lot of spec for your dosh - but in terms of engine/handling and being fun to drive nothing special.
Could even get a German Shepherd in the boot if she ducked down a bit
Edited by caprirob on Wednesday 20th February 22:11
poing said:
The Hyundai is a massively underrated car, especially in the handling stakes. I loved mine and remember it really just seeming to pummel the roads into submission and gripping often far beyond my bravery. Eventually you do up your limits and find the cars limit but it's a little intimidating and the back end snaps out fast if you lose it. Mine was seriously not keen on wet roads, changing the tyres made a massive difference though but then it was on P6000's to start with so that maybe explains it.
Having said all that, it depends what you compare it to. You seem to be comparing it to an Astra from the days when they were not well considered in the handling stakes. My Ford KA was more fun to drive, my MX5 raised the bar (if not the grip levels) in terms of handling to a level I couldn't even imagine before that point. Try a Ford Focus, the MK1 flavour, down that same road. You honestly won't believe how good a basic boring hatchback is when it's got a well designed chassis.
My only problem with the Hyundai was it just wasn't playful enough for my liking but that didn't stop it being a really good car.
Ive actually been looking at snotter focii <-- ?? as a potential replacement for my metro when it inevitably dies.. Having said all that, it depends what you compare it to. You seem to be comparing it to an Astra from the days when they were not well considered in the handling stakes. My Ford KA was more fun to drive, my MX5 raised the bar (if not the grip levels) in terms of handling to a level I couldn't even imagine before that point. Try a Ford Focus, the MK1 flavour, down that same road. You honestly won't believe how good a basic boring hatchback is when it's got a well designed chassis.
My only problem with the Hyundai was it just wasn't playful enough for my liking but that didn't stop it being a really good car.
I look forward to exploring its limits
but if we look at the pair astra above.. what does the coupe do or offer that the hatch version doesn't.. besides the look of a coupe? are they stiffer? is that actually noticeable when not on a race track?
SystemParanoia said:
but if we look at the pair astra above.. what does the coupe do or offer that the hatch version doesn't.. besides the look of a coupe? are they stiffer? is that actually noticeable when not on a race track?
Depends on the car, I suspect the Astra is purely a marketing thing. Some are built as coupes by design, the Hyundai for example doesn't have a direct hatchback alternative. Most companies don't even make coupe alternative to the normal hatchback any more, or rather they do but they are actually the 3 door hatch with a coupe badge on them which is kind of cheating. Since a lot of coupes are essentially a 3 door hatch then it's hard to argue with their thinking.Are they stiffer, not always. In fact a lot of them are almost certainly done to appeal to the poser market over the driver market and as such probably compromised in handling for the sake of packaging needs. Would I buy the coupe version of the hatch by choice? Possibly if the looks were worth the compromise, might as well be pretty to look at if I don't need the practicality and lets face it, it'll rarely be anywhere near it's limit on the road.
There will always be exceptions to these rules though so I'll end as I started. It depends on the car.
poing said:
Depends on the car, I suspect the Astra is purely a marketing thing. Some are built as coupes by design, the Hyundai for example doesn't have a direct hatchback alternative. Most companies don't even make coupe alternative to the normal hatchback any more, or rather they do but they are actually the 3 door hatch with a coupe badge on them which is kind of cheating. Since a lot of coupes are essentially a 3 door hatch then it's hard to argue with their thinking.
Are they stiffer, not always. In fact a lot of them are almost certainly done to appeal to the poser market over the driver market and as such probably compromised in handling for the sake of packaging needs. Would I buy the coupe version of the hatch by choice? Possibly if the looks were worth the compromise, might as well be pretty to look at if I don't need the practicality and lets face it, it'll rarely be anywhere near it's limit on the road.
There will always be exceptions to these rules though so I'll end as I started. It depends on the car.
A point very well madeAre they stiffer, not always. In fact a lot of them are almost certainly done to appeal to the poser market over the driver market and as such probably compromised in handling for the sake of packaging needs. Would I buy the coupe version of the hatch by choice? Possibly if the looks were worth the compromise, might as well be pretty to look at if I don't need the practicality and lets face it, it'll rarely be anywhere near it's limit on the road.
There will always be exceptions to these rules though so I'll end as I started. It depends on the car.
So if we look at the coupes that are only availible as such, like. The celica, hyundai coupe, the selection of alfas, fiat coupe, vw corrado etc... can they be looked at as something dynamicaly better or superior to their hot hatch stablemates?
I.e the earluer poster mentioning the civic coupes double wishbose suspension vs most hatches having a rear beam of some description
Also dont the coupes generally have a longer wheelbase?
RenOHH said:
Failing to see what exactly is different between a FWD coupé and hatchback that can possibly affect the handling. One has a slightly different roof line than the other 
They're the same.
It depends massively on the car. The lower centre of gravity will help (a bit), and coupes often have a slightly wider track than the hatch that they're based on. Wheelbases are often lengthened, too. They're the same.
I suppose once you get onto ones that aren't directly based on a hatch, you get different suspension systems allowed by the lesser packaging constraints of a less practical car.
Generally speaking though, there aint that much difference that actually has anything directly to do with the body style. Coupes just tend to be more "driver focussed" because that's what the market wants. The body style is 95% aesthetics.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 20th February 22:57
RenOHH said:
Failing to see what exactly is different between a FWD coupé and hatchback that can possibly affect the handling. One has a slightly different roof line than the other
They're the same.
That doesnt explain why the integra type r is loved by all.. whilst the regular civic type r is only respected in comparison to its peersThey're the same.
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