Issues with purchase of Porsche Cayman.
Discussion
hello there, im after some advice on a Cayman i have just purchased from ***** linked to a major manufacturer, will not mention the name here
basically went to look at the Cayman on the 16th of this month and bought the car on the 23rd, the Saturday just gone.
i couldn't test drive the car on the 16th as i didn't have the paper part of my driving license. I put a £1000 deposit on the £19000 Porsche in the week which was refundable depending on the test drive. got to the garage an hour late Saturday and was ushered straight into the sales room to pay for the car. I even made a joke about not being able to test drive the thing, now i am a grown man and should have insisted on the test drive.
The advert and spec i was emailed by the sales guy said the car had cruise control, sound package and i was given a paper sales card which said tracker. as far as i can tell the car has none of these...
ok so the email i sent to the sales guy today is included below, maybe it was a little strong but not the level of service i would expect for an expensive car. Shortly after the email the sales guy phoned me and said they would provide new tyres, whatever they had in stock. so i asked if he meant to put budget tyres on my new expensive car. he said if thats all they had in stock then yes they would use budget tyres. I complained and was offered this or a full refund. After more discussion they said they would replace the front tyres like for like, no mention of anything else in my email. the friendly salesman turned rather cold and might i say a little rude.
Just wondered where I stand, i love the car but do feel like i was pressured into buying without driving or checking all listed features (yes my fault). In hindsight a mistake on my part but its the first time i have bought a decent car like this!
what would you recommend? Am i expecting too much? i do really like the car if im honest, its in good nick with only 30k on the clock but feel properly let down customer service wise from this group. email below kind of explains it better. thanks for the read any help much appreciated!!
Hi *****
>
> Thanks for the message you left Saturday, apologies for not answering I was driving.
>
> To answer your question, I had the car checked at a Porsche specialist as I told you I was going to. Before I speak to you on the phone again regarding the tyres please look at the attached photos. You say the edges have at least 3mm, there is less than 1mm on the inside edge and this would be an MOT failure. On out test drive you said tyres would have a minimum of 4mm tread as well.
>
> Please check http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_410.htm section 4.1 Tyres (Tread Pattern, Breadth and Depth)
>
> The photo of the MOT tyre tread checker shows that the depth is less than 1.6mm within the ¾ of centre tread.
>
> You can even tell from a poor quality photo taken on my phone. Are the guys at ***** who check these cars approved to undertake MOTs? If this is the level of checking I am rather concerned. As the tyres are worn on the inside edge there is an alignment issue with the car. I assume this would have been undertaken as part of the safety check undertaken by Lexus? Please could I get a copy of the 4 wheels alignment please including camber and toe settings? You mention my car has been through your checks, can I get a copy of this checklist that mentions the tyres were checked and have 3mm on the inside edge (as per your voicemail of 23/02/2013 at 16:50)?
>
> This then leads me onto the front discs. Who replaced the front pads as these look very new? Was that ***** or the previous owner? If *****, why weren’t the discs changed as they are pretty badly worn. Can I get a copy of the report which covers the front discs please showing wear levels?
>
> When we were testing driving the car you mentioned that the tyres would have at least 4mm of tread and the discs would have at least 70%. This must be off some approved used car guarantee list, can you send this through to me please. I originally asked you for this in my email dated 21/02/2013.
>
> The whole point of buying through a reputable company was that I would receive the car in top condition. I could have saved myself £2000-£3000 and purchased a car privately then I would expect to have to deal with this kind of issue. The tyres will need replacing now and the front discs (and new pads) within the next 6 months, depending on mileage. This will cost me in excess of £1000.
>
> I would also like to mention that the advert you sent me for the car says it has cruise control and the upgraded sound package. As far as I can tell it has neither. What I thought was cruise control is actually the trip computer. After using this in the Clio, this is a massive loss to me. And I know you don’t guarantee options unless I specifically ask you but you even emailed this to me! Also the paper copy you gave me mentions a tracker, where is this located in the car? I don’t seem to have any paper work for this but will check again tonight.
>
> A note on the bodywork, the front bumper has been sprayed and the passenger door has had some work, possibly re-sprayed after a scratch. This is not an issue, you would expect this with a 5 year old car and the work is to a high standard.
>
> A final note the front passenger side bonnet strut is on the way out, its squeaking and leaking oil. This however isn’t urgent and can be dealt with at a later date.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you
basically went to look at the Cayman on the 16th of this month and bought the car on the 23rd, the Saturday just gone.
i couldn't test drive the car on the 16th as i didn't have the paper part of my driving license. I put a £1000 deposit on the £19000 Porsche in the week which was refundable depending on the test drive. got to the garage an hour late Saturday and was ushered straight into the sales room to pay for the car. I even made a joke about not being able to test drive the thing, now i am a grown man and should have insisted on the test drive.
The advert and spec i was emailed by the sales guy said the car had cruise control, sound package and i was given a paper sales card which said tracker. as far as i can tell the car has none of these...
ok so the email i sent to the sales guy today is included below, maybe it was a little strong but not the level of service i would expect for an expensive car. Shortly after the email the sales guy phoned me and said they would provide new tyres, whatever they had in stock. so i asked if he meant to put budget tyres on my new expensive car. he said if thats all they had in stock then yes they would use budget tyres. I complained and was offered this or a full refund. After more discussion they said they would replace the front tyres like for like, no mention of anything else in my email. the friendly salesman turned rather cold and might i say a little rude.
Just wondered where I stand, i love the car but do feel like i was pressured into buying without driving or checking all listed features (yes my fault). In hindsight a mistake on my part but its the first time i have bought a decent car like this!
what would you recommend? Am i expecting too much? i do really like the car if im honest, its in good nick with only 30k on the clock but feel properly let down customer service wise from this group. email below kind of explains it better. thanks for the read any help much appreciated!!
Hi *****
>
> Thanks for the message you left Saturday, apologies for not answering I was driving.
>
> To answer your question, I had the car checked at a Porsche specialist as I told you I was going to. Before I speak to you on the phone again regarding the tyres please look at the attached photos. You say the edges have at least 3mm, there is less than 1mm on the inside edge and this would be an MOT failure. On out test drive you said tyres would have a minimum of 4mm tread as well.
>
> Please check http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_410.htm section 4.1 Tyres (Tread Pattern, Breadth and Depth)
>
> The photo of the MOT tyre tread checker shows that the depth is less than 1.6mm within the ¾ of centre tread.
>
> You can even tell from a poor quality photo taken on my phone. Are the guys at ***** who check these cars approved to undertake MOTs? If this is the level of checking I am rather concerned. As the tyres are worn on the inside edge there is an alignment issue with the car. I assume this would have been undertaken as part of the safety check undertaken by Lexus? Please could I get a copy of the 4 wheels alignment please including camber and toe settings? You mention my car has been through your checks, can I get a copy of this checklist that mentions the tyres were checked and have 3mm on the inside edge (as per your voicemail of 23/02/2013 at 16:50)?
>
> This then leads me onto the front discs. Who replaced the front pads as these look very new? Was that ***** or the previous owner? If *****, why weren’t the discs changed as they are pretty badly worn. Can I get a copy of the report which covers the front discs please showing wear levels?
>
> When we were testing driving the car you mentioned that the tyres would have at least 4mm of tread and the discs would have at least 70%. This must be off some approved used car guarantee list, can you send this through to me please. I originally asked you for this in my email dated 21/02/2013.
>
> The whole point of buying through a reputable company was that I would receive the car in top condition. I could have saved myself £2000-£3000 and purchased a car privately then I would expect to have to deal with this kind of issue. The tyres will need replacing now and the front discs (and new pads) within the next 6 months, depending on mileage. This will cost me in excess of £1000.
>
> I would also like to mention that the advert you sent me for the car says it has cruise control and the upgraded sound package. As far as I can tell it has neither. What I thought was cruise control is actually the trip computer. After using this in the Clio, this is a massive loss to me. And I know you don’t guarantee options unless I specifically ask you but you even emailed this to me! Also the paper copy you gave me mentions a tracker, where is this located in the car? I don’t seem to have any paper work for this but will check again tonight.
>
> A note on the bodywork, the front bumper has been sprayed and the passenger door has had some work, possibly re-sprayed after a scratch. This is not an issue, you would expect this with a 5 year old car and the work is to a high standard.
>
> A final note the front passenger side bonnet strut is on the way out, its squeaking and leaking oil. This however isn’t urgent and can be dealt with at a later date.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you
Edited by welshwiz on Tuesday 26th February 00:20
Edited by welshwiz on Tuesday 26th February 08:48
Hi Welshwiz, tough break on the new car situation, must be disappointing for such a nice new purchase..
I guess it comes down to whether you are overall happy with the car (putting aside the tyres / brakes issue for now) or if the spec / lack of cc is a deal breaker for you?
If the former then I'm sure with a bit of persistance you will get the outcome you're after with the dealer replacing the tyres / brakes and then once rectified the substandard customer service and admin will soon become memory while you enjoy the car.
Can understand however if the whole buying journey with Lexus Sytner has become too much of a bad one and the car goes back for a refund.. were you looking for long for the car?
Tim
I guess it comes down to whether you are overall happy with the car (putting aside the tyres / brakes issue for now) or if the spec / lack of cc is a deal breaker for you?
If the former then I'm sure with a bit of persistance you will get the outcome you're after with the dealer replacing the tyres / brakes and then once rectified the substandard customer service and admin will soon become memory while you enjoy the car.
Can understand however if the whole buying journey with Lexus Sytner has become too much of a bad one and the car goes back for a refund.. were you looking for long for the car?
Tim
thanks for replies, all helpful.
Been looking for a car for about 4 months, but only decided on the Porsche about 3 weeks ago. gone from a clio 200 to Golf R32 to Nissan 350Z. decided on a Porsche and probly rushed into it :-( cc is a massive loss even my 182 had it and motorways aint the same after 4 years with it.
thing is to return the car will cost me bit, changing insurances etc. problt 300 max. compared to 19k its nothing i suppose
Been looking for a car for about 4 months, but only decided on the Porsche about 3 weeks ago. gone from a clio 200 to Golf R32 to Nissan 350Z. decided on a Porsche and probly rushed into it :-( cc is a massive loss even my 182 had it and motorways aint the same after 4 years with it.
thing is to return the car will cost me bit, changing insurances etc. problt 300 max. compared to 19k its nothing i suppose
.i'm not sure what you are complaining about
they offered you your deposit back but you went ahead with the sale
your email was fairly rude, quoting the MOT manual to a car dealers, making assumptions about the tests they carry out and demanding to see reports, i am not surprised the sales man has now gone cold on you, especially when according to your story you showed up an hour late for your last appointment and then didn't take his last phone call. Also your story says you didn't get a test drive and should have insisted on one, but your email talks about the test drive, so you must have managed to get a test drive at some point.
they offered you your deposit back but you went ahead with the sale
your email was fairly rude, quoting the MOT manual to a car dealers, making assumptions about the tests they carry out and demanding to see reports, i am not surprised the sales man has now gone cold on you, especially when according to your story you showed up an hour late for your last appointment and then didn't take his last phone call. Also your story says you didn't get a test drive and should have insisted on one, but your email talks about the test drive, so you must have managed to get a test drive at some point.
Write a nicer email to the dealer principle and c/c the salesman with a mild apology saying you were perhaps a little hasty and you'd like to offer them the chance to rectify the issues with the brake/tyres/retro fit cruise as the vehicle was mis-described.
All the issues should be resolvable if you play nicely.
All the issues should be resolvable if you play nicely.
Agree that it's annoying, but I can see why the sales guy 'went cold' - quoting MOT requirements/links etc is bound to set things off down the wrong path. You also seem to be expecting the sales guy to be rushing round because you perceive it to be "an expensive car"....£19k is perhaps a lot to you for a car, but it isn't a huge amount for a main dealer selling newish cars, and it also probably doesn't (or shouldn't) impact on their approach to customer service either way.
The spec would bother me more I guess if it really is "a great loss" for you - perhaps you should get your money back or get the cruise control retrofitted. They've offered a refund without a fuss, which is fairly decent. I'd have a think about exactly what it is that you want (discount, refund, correction of issues etc), jot this down and then call them up or go in and have a more pleasant conversation with them.
At this stage they don't sound that they've done much more wrong, other than perhaps not really knowing the car that they've retailed. Hopefully you can sort it out fairly easily and enjoy your new car. Good luck!
The spec would bother me more I guess if it really is "a great loss" for you - perhaps you should get your money back or get the cruise control retrofitted. They've offered a refund without a fuss, which is fairly decent. I'd have a think about exactly what it is that you want (discount, refund, correction of issues etc), jot this down and then call them up or go in and have a more pleasant conversation with them.
At this stage they don't sound that they've done much more wrong, other than perhaps not really knowing the car that they've retailed. Hopefully you can sort it out fairly easily and enjoy your new car. Good luck!
Edited by johnnyBv8 on Tuesday 26th February 07:47
First of all sales reps have appointments to keep and being a full hour late could seriously muck up their schedule , especially on a weekend. I hope you at least gave him/her a call informing them that you'll be late. Do you really still expectt a test drive after being a full hour late?
Secondly, my first approach would be by phone of possible. Even by email I would start with a civilised tone. People seem to think being rude and demanding seem to work well these days.
Finally, tyres and pad aside, your main issue here is not sold as seen - although technically you didn't actually inspect it personally. I'd give the sales rep a call, eat humble pie and apologise for your tone in email and try to work from there. You need to decide though beforehand if you want to return the car or get them to rectify the tyres and brakes.
Secondly, my first approach would be by phone of possible. Even by email I would start with a civilised tone. People seem to think being rude and demanding seem to work well these days.
Finally, tyres and pad aside, your main issue here is not sold as seen - although technically you didn't actually inspect it personally. I'd give the sales rep a call, eat humble pie and apologise for your tone in email and try to work from there. You need to decide though beforehand if you want to return the car or get them to rectify the tyres and brakes.
Is it a case of trade descriptions act - they sell you a car with cruise control and a tracker which it then turns out it doesn't have? The car is therefore not "as described"?
Not sure if this is remedied by a refund or rectification.
I think you need to decide if you ideally would have the car rectified or refunded before you engage with the dealer again.
Good luck.
Not sure if this is remedied by a refund or rectification.
I think you need to decide if you ideally would have the car rectified or refunded before you engage with the dealer again.
Good luck.
The reason I sent the email quoting MOT and asking for the tests carried out on my car. I did this and they were ensuring me the tyres had min 3mm. This was from a report he was reading. As the tyre was legal they wouldn't replace them. So I suppose I went over the top quoting to them. But if they say there's 3mm and intact there's less than 1 it concerned me as to the accuracy.
Admit in hindsight I would do it differently
Thanks for all ur comments, knew I would get slated. Quite rightly so !
Admit in hindsight I would do it differently
Thanks for all ur comments, knew I would get slated. Quite rightly so !
for the record, i think your email was fine.
as a customer you should not have to check the company you buy from is doing their job properly.
and an hour late for a test drive isn't really good of you but you also gave the company almost twice as much as the Annual income of someone on minimum wage, so again that's no excuse for the dealership to sell you something that wasn't as described.
as a customer you should not have to check the company you buy from is doing their job properly.
and an hour late for a test drive isn't really good of you but you also gave the company almost twice as much as the Annual income of someone on minimum wage, so again that's no excuse for the dealership to sell you something that wasn't as described.
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