Help my friend - is it a scam or not?

[offshorematt2]

Right, a friend is looking at buying a cheap car for his commute. He found something suitable on Autotrader. Trouble is I'm pretty sure it's a massive scam but I can't yet work out how. Need to be able to tell him 'I told you so' when it undoubtedly goes tits up.

Without going into too many details, the car is a popular french-make of which there are a fair few on sale. It is the cheapest by far and appears to be on sale for around, or a little bit above, 50% of market value (£3.5k'ish). Next cheapest is £500 more and has 159,000 miles on it - this one has less than 50k on the clock and is apparently immaculate (and apparently HPI clear). The seller lives (as of recently) on the North Coast of Scotland (thus handily very awkward to reach), but is happy to meet in any city in the UK for the sale. He has a relatively unique name (albeit more Western European than Nigerian ) and his grasp of english is not quite there. Claims to be a pensioner who has owned the car from new and kept it garaged. So for someone who doesn't do many miles, it seems strange that he will happily embark on a ten hour journey to the South of England without hesitation.

My mate is giving him the benefit of the doubt for now - he wants to meet in Inverness at the weekend which the seller has agreed to. I think he's hoping he's just met a nice old man who wants to sell his car quick. He's already feeling guilty about the pensioner not knowing what he has and feeling like he is ripping him off. On the other hand I'm pretty certain that he is being manoeuvered into a scam - interesting to note that the advert has vanished off autotrader since this morning when he made contact...

So, trusting that he won't be handing over his bank account details, and setting aside the potential for kidnap/human trafficking, what is the scam here (presuming there is one)? Only think I can think of is that it's a ringer, but a decent look over and an HPI will surely expose that pretty quickly. Any common ones going on at the moment that can be disproved before he travels? It's not an inconsiderable distance and an utter waste of his life if he turns up to find some wrecker with the obviously wrong plates fitted.

So over to you - is it a scam? And if so, what?!

BTW, we googled his name and it doesn't come up with any dubious looking hits...

Edit, just read this back... forget the 'is it a scam?' queastion - of course it is!! But what? Presumably he ain't going to be preparing ringers and risk driving all over the UK to make £1500. So I asume the scam happens before they meet up...

Edited by offshorematt2 on Wednesday 27th February 16:41

[Boobonman]

My rule of thumb on PH, is that if anyone asks if something is a scam, then it invariably is.

[crmcatee]

Call his bluff - ask if a mate close by can come round and inspect it on your behalf. Say your mate lives in a nearby town to where he says it is.

[offshorematt2]

Boobonman said:

My rule of thumb on PH, is that if anyone asks if something is a scam, then it invariably is.

Can't argue with that

crmcatee said:

Call his bluff - ask if a mate close by can come round and inspect it on your behalf. Say your mate lives in a nearby town to where he says it is.

But conveniently he's a couple of hundred miles from home right now, so not available to meet earlier...

Edited by offshorematt2 on Wednesday 27th February 16:45

[Odie]

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

[D4MJT]

The total cynic in me thinks this way, if everything else checks out, your mate is now in the situation where he thinks he's off to meet a doddery old chap with little idea what he's selling, and hoping to grab a bargain, so if it's cheap, he'll likely have the cash on him yes?

Let's imagine upon arrival the doddery old chap is several burly chaps with no car, who are hoping to relieve him of his bundle of cash?

[vixen1700]

offshorematt2 said:

and setting aside the potential for kidnap/human trafficking,

Your mate will be bundled in the boot and sold off to Roma gypsies just outside of Bucharest, and will be destined to a life of begging in Germany if he's lucky, Hungary if he's not.

Seen it all too many times before.

[W00DY]

It's a scam.

Link to the ad?

[SWoll]

As above.

If you have to ask...

[crmcatee]

offshorematt2 said:

But conveniently he's a couple of hundred miles from home right now, so not available to meet earlier...

Edited by offshorematt2 on Wednesday 27th February 16:45

He maybe but is the car ? Find out where he is and suggest another mate funnily enough near by.. repeat until you get to see the car.

Can't you ask for the custard test ?

[Rakoosh]

Does your mate have dreadlocks?

I reckon he might just be after your mates hair?

I have a question back at you (+ mate) - if you think its a scam of some sort (and you must do as why would you ask this) - why bother to try and find out what the scam is?

As in why risk it? Why even humour the scammer?

If you think possibly its not a scam - but a bargain.

Well then before wasting your time to see it :
Have you run an HPI check yourself?

[EddieFelson]

Cash robbery thread will follow.

[RSoovy4]

EddieFelson said:

Cash robbery thread will follow.

Walk, no run away.

[Deva Link]

offshorematt2 said:

So I asume the scam happens before they meet up...

Pick something off here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=14&...

I imagine if they arrange to meet then the "old guy" will cancel but ask your mate to send a deposit via Western Union.

[Buff Mchugelarge]

It's either a genuine old chap wanting to shift his car quick or your mate's about to get his head kicked in.

Good luck with that one

[CraigyMc]

op said:

there are a fair few on sale

Get mate to buy a local one. The risks outweigh the potential cost saving on the 1% chance this isn't a scam.

Can't believe I actually have to write this.

C

[XplusYplusZ]

My guesses are:
Mugging
Stolen Car
or They'll ask for some sort of money before hand - deposit, train fair home, petrol money and they never show up.

[Matt UK]

"Hi, I'm here about the car"

"Hello, old Harry is unwell I'm afraid, but I'm his Grandson so no problem. The car is not far from here, lets get going"

"Fantastic - lead on my good man!"

"The car is spot on, it's a bargain actually, I've had loads of calls and coul have sold it 10 times by now - have you got cash on you? Just so I know we are not wasting each others time?"

"I have indeed - really hoping we do a deal!"

"Great. Not much further now. Just a left here. Then a right. Another left just up here.."

"Wow this housing estate is huge, hope I find my way ou..."

<THWACK!>
<slump>
<rustle of fractically searched pockets and rucksack>
<footsteps, fading from earshot>

[valiant]

Could the car be stolen on false plates?

That way all is ok on HPI until you come to taxing time or a pull from the cops and then there is no trace of the previous 'owner'.


Remember, If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck etc,etc

[offshorematt2]

crmcatee said:

offshorematt2 said:

But conveniently he's a couple of hundred miles from home right now, so not available to meet earlier...

He maybe but is the car ? Find out where he is and suggest another mate funnily enough near by.. repeat until you get to see the car.

Can't you ask for the custard test ?

Yeah apparently he has the car with him while he's away from home. Love the idea of asking for the custard test; imagine trying to explain to a pensioner why you want a photo of him with a tub of custard

Rakoosh said:

I have a question back at you (+ mate) - if you think its a scam of some sort (and you must do as why would you ask this) - why bother to try and find out what the scam is?

Have you run an HPI check yourself?

Just out of interest really. It's not my cash, I wouldn't be travelling for it personally but my pal thinks it might turn out to be the bargain of the century. I'm more cynical than him though...

He hasn't run an HPI as the number plate isn't visible in the pictures and the seller hasn't responded with it yet despite being asked. Quite telling I think.

CraigyMc said:

Get mate to buy a local one. The risks outweigh the potential cost saving on the 1% chance this isn't a scam.

Can't believe I actually have to write this.

Turns out the autotrader advert appeared to be placed by a well known local garage seven miles from his house so he was searching locally. It said in the advert though that it was a customer car and gave the email address. The advert has since been removed so can't forward it to the garage in question but safe to say after he was told the car was hundreds of miles away, that it is 100% scammy.

Out of interest why can't you believe you had to write your reply? Presumably you read the thread before replying so you'd know I don't believe it and am advising him the same. Hardly like I'm egging him on to go to a meeting is it? Just wanted to understand what the scam was.

XplusYplusZ said:

My guesses are:
Mugging
Stolen Car
or They'll ask for some sort of money before hand - deposit, train fair home, petrol money and they never show up.

Kind of covered all my guesses too.

The last two are easily avoided by him not being naive when negotiating/viewing but getting a kicking/mugged is a lot less easy to prepare for without just avoiding the whole situation. I think he is coming round to that way of thinking too.


That said, for what it's worth, the whole 'anywhere in the UK' thing suggests to me that there is never any likelihood of meeting this guy - there'll be a request for a deposit or something before much longer, I'd expect. If he stays in touch, I'll update on the outcome...