Using an E36 to tow a track car
Discussion
Right, I'm looking at getting an E36 Touring as my next car, most likely the 323i model. I currently have a Mk5 Fiesta ZS which I've done a track day in and want to do more.
The way I see it, it would be simpler to take the Fiesta off the road and make it a pure track car (no MOT to worry about), multicar insurance becomes confusing and being 19 (probably 20 when this happens) I can't really insure one car without NCB, so taking it off the road.
My confusing comes with towing, I'm not too fussed about having to do the towing licence. What I can't work out is whether the E36 could even do it. Some people say its not recommended to tow. The Fiesta will be about 800kgs, then whatever a trailer will weigh. And awful MPG, in some ways it would be cheaper to keep the Fiesta road worthy, if it wasn't for insurance.
Using the hive mind of man maths available, is there a way to insure both cars sensibly? Is towing viable? Etc.
Any help would be great, it's all a bit pie in the sky at the moment (I can't even park anything bigger than my Fiesta until June thanks to needing to fit two cars on a drive with a single entrance) but its been swirling around in my head for a few days and I can't find a solution.
This is all without even considering the fact I wouldn't want to cut the M-Sport rear bumper!
The way I see it, it would be simpler to take the Fiesta off the road and make it a pure track car (no MOT to worry about), multicar insurance becomes confusing and being 19 (probably 20 when this happens) I can't really insure one car without NCB, so taking it off the road.
My confusing comes with towing, I'm not too fussed about having to do the towing licence. What I can't work out is whether the E36 could even do it. Some people say its not recommended to tow. The Fiesta will be about 800kgs, then whatever a trailer will weigh. And awful MPG, in some ways it would be cheaper to keep the Fiesta road worthy, if it wasn't for insurance.
Using the hive mind of man maths available, is there a way to insure both cars sensibly? Is towing viable? Etc.
Any help would be great, it's all a bit pie in the sky at the moment (I can't even park anything bigger than my Fiesta until June thanks to needing to fit two cars on a drive with a single entrance) but its been swirling around in my head for a few days and I can't find a solution.
This is all without even considering the fact I wouldn't want to cut the M-Sport rear bumper!
The E36 323i touring has a braked towing weight of 1600kilos and a gross weight of 1850kilos.
This means your car can only tow a trailer plated up to 1600kilos. However, if you passed your test before 1997 (which i suspect you did, being 19) the Gross weight of the car, and the gross weight of the trailer, cant exceed 3500kilos. I make it 3450kilos.
So if you can find a trailer light with a maximum allowed mass of 1600 kilos or less (i believe you should be able to have a heavier duty trailer plated down to 1600kilos), that will accept your fiesta and still be under 1600 kilos loaded, you should be ok.
However, when i think of small cars (specifically the e36) towing, my mind defaults to this youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLnLwFcSBc
Alternatively, buy a cheap transit luton and insure it as a half done camper van, which a lad i know did, meaning van insurance becomes more sensible
This means your car can only tow a trailer plated up to 1600kilos. However, if you passed your test before 1997 (which i suspect you did, being 19) the Gross weight of the car, and the gross weight of the trailer, cant exceed 3500kilos. I make it 3450kilos.
So if you can find a trailer light with a maximum allowed mass of 1600 kilos or less (i believe you should be able to have a heavier duty trailer plated down to 1600kilos), that will accept your fiesta and still be under 1600 kilos loaded, you should be ok.
However, when i think of small cars (specifically the e36) towing, my mind defaults to this youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLnLwFcSBc
Alternatively, buy a cheap transit luton and insure it as a half done camper van, which a lad i know did, meaning van insurance becomes more sensible
323 tow very nicely I used to tow my 205 rallycross car and 4 wheel trailer with one - it was very stable, powerful enough and was one of the best towcars I've used ( have used Omega, Volvo 850, Mondeo v6, caravel v5, passat estates).
As above you need to be within vosa weight regs so you might be better off with a 525 or an Omega.
I wouldnt bother towing for track days better off driving there and back and take a back up car with you to tow you home if you break it.
As above you need to be within vosa weight regs so you might be better off with a 525 or an Omega.
I wouldnt bother towing for track days better off driving there and back and take a back up car with you to tow you home if you break it.
bigfatnick said:
The E36 323i touring has a braked towing weight of 1600kilos and a gross weight of 1850kilos.
This means your car can only tow a trailer plated up to 1600kilos. However, if you passed your test before 1997 (which i suspect you did, being 19) the Gross weight of the car, and the gross weight of the trailer, cant exceed 3500kilos. I make it 3450kilos.
So if you can find a trailer light with a maximum allowed mass of 1600 kilos or less (i believe you should be able to have a heavier duty trailer plated down to 1600kilos), that will accept your fiesta and still be under 1600 kilos loaded, you should be ok.
However, when i think of small cars (specifically the e36) towing, my mind defaults to this youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLnLwFcSBc
Alternatively, buy a cheap transit luton and insure it as a half done camper van, which a lad i know did, meaning van insurance becomes more sensible
The OP passed his test whilst still at nursery school? This means your car can only tow a trailer plated up to 1600kilos. However, if you passed your test before 1997 (which i suspect you did, being 19) the Gross weight of the car, and the gross weight of the trailer, cant exceed 3500kilos. I make it 3450kilos.
So if you can find a trailer light with a maximum allowed mass of 1600 kilos or less (i believe you should be able to have a heavier duty trailer plated down to 1600kilos), that will accept your fiesta and still be under 1600 kilos loaded, you should be ok.
However, when i think of small cars (specifically the e36) towing, my mind defaults to this youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLnLwFcSBc
Alternatively, buy a cheap transit luton and insure it as a half done camper van, which a lad i know did, meaning van insurance becomes more sensible
s p a c e m a n said:
How about just getting an A frame or dolly to drag the car on, saves the weight of a trailer. Not sure if the car you are dragging has to have an mot but I have seen some right scrap being towed like it.
These are now classed as unbraked trailers (unless the braking system can be connected up properly), so the weight of the trackcar would far exceed the limit. Even the recovery services only use them in emergencies and for short distances.What's the lightest trailer that I could get to tow the Fiesta uninsured? I was only expecting them to be 500kgs or so, but all the ones I've found are over 1000kgs, and no manner of lightening will get the Fiesta much lighter than 750kgs.
Thanks for all your help so far. I could consider another car, but the E36 looks great, isn't huge (I live in Bath so parking any estate might be a challenge at times, especially at uni) and isn't too expensive. My Dad has an E39 525D which might be an option, but because he owns one, I'd never consider buying one, as I know it wouldn't be as good as his.
Like I also said, if I have to do the towing licence B+E so be it, would be useful to have in the future anyway.
Thanks for all your help so far. I could consider another car, but the E36 looks great, isn't huge (I live in Bath so parking any estate might be a challenge at times, especially at uni) and isn't too expensive. My Dad has an E39 525D which might be an option, but because he owns one, I'd never consider buying one, as I know it wouldn't be as good as his.
Like I also said, if I have to do the towing licence B+E so be it, would be useful to have in the future anyway.
You need a heavier tow car or a seriously light fiesta on a seriously light trailer. Or a B+e license.
An alternative option would be to buy a standard trailer like a Brian James Minno or Clubman (Gross weight of 1350kg+) and get Brian James to make and send you a new chassis plate with a lower gross weight on it (1100kg or so). This is legal so long as you don't exceed 1100kg gross.
ETA: a BJT minno or clubman will weigh ~350-450kg so if you get a 1100kg chassis plate you'll be able to put 650-750kg on it.
An alternative option would be to buy a standard trailer like a Brian James Minno or Clubman (Gross weight of 1350kg+) and get Brian James to make and send you a new chassis plate with a lower gross weight on it (1100kg or so). This is legal so long as you don't exceed 1100kg gross.
ETA: a BJT minno or clubman will weigh ~350-450kg so if you get a 1100kg chassis plate you'll be able to put 650-750kg on it.
Edited by HustleRussell on Wednesday 27th March 11:42
kabout I don't bother proof reading. Doh'Digitalize said:
Do I take the Load KG away from the Gross KG to get the weight of the trailer?
For example a trailer with a Gross KG of 1300kg and a Load KG of 1000kg weighs 300kg?
Yeah that'll work if you can find a 'load kg', Everyone seems to rate trailers by their 'Gross' weight or MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass), which is the maximum mass of the trailer when fully loaded. This will be stamped on the chassis plate along with the 'Tare', which is the unladen weight of the trailer.For example a trailer with a Gross KG of 1300kg and a Load KG of 1000kg weighs 300kg?
e.g. My trailer is a Brian James Clubman with a gross of 1,350kg and a tare of 350kg- therefore the heaviest load I can legally put on it is 1,000kg.
Op, I've been looking into towing recently, more info here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
basically its quite confusing and not explained very well. But it seems that:
-with a 3.5 tonne vehicle MAM you can tow a 750kg MAM trailer (total of 4250kg).
MAM is maximum authorised mass, so this is the heaviest that the vehicle/trailer can be. A trailer will need to be "plated" to show it's MAM. So a trailers MAM is the trailer weight + what it can carry.
-However if you want to tow a trailer over 750kg MAM you can, provided the trailer doesn't weigh more than the tow vehicle and has a combined weight of no more than 3500kg.
The only grey area is what does combined weight mean?
Is it
Combined weight = tow vehicle kerb weight + trailer MAM
or is it
Combined weight = tow vehicle MAM + trailer MAM
Personally I think it's the first one and that is how it is worded, but there are others who believe it is the 2nd one. But it does make a huge difference.
Assuming the first is correct, then a BMW e36 with a kerb weight of 1385kg means you could tow a trailer with a MAM of 1385kg or under.
basically its quite confusing and not explained very well. But it seems that:
-with a 3.5 tonne vehicle MAM you can tow a 750kg MAM trailer (total of 4250kg).
MAM is maximum authorised mass, so this is the heaviest that the vehicle/trailer can be. A trailer will need to be "plated" to show it's MAM. So a trailers MAM is the trailer weight + what it can carry.
-However if you want to tow a trailer over 750kg MAM you can, provided the trailer doesn't weigh more than the tow vehicle and has a combined weight of no more than 3500kg.
The only grey area is what does combined weight mean?
Is it
Combined weight = tow vehicle kerb weight + trailer MAM
or is it
Combined weight = tow vehicle MAM + trailer MAM
Personally I think it's the first one and that is how it is worded, but there are others who believe it is the 2nd one. But it does make a huge difference.
Assuming the first is correct, then a BMW e36 with a kerb weight of 1385kg means you could tow a trailer with a MAM of 1385kg or under.
Right, 300bhp I agree with you I think, and therefore it might mean I can tow without another licence, as I'm expecting the total weight to be around 11-1200kgs all in, which means the total will be well under 3500kgs, and the trailer will weigh less than the car.
Money wise, it's going to be about £1500 to start towing (assuming the car doesn't have a tow bar), and the E36 will do roughly 20mpg when towing. It might end up being cheaper and more convenient to just keep the Fiesta on the road, but if the worst happens on track I don't have a vehicle to get the Fiesta home.
Money wise, it's going to be about £1500 to start towing (assuming the car doesn't have a tow bar), and the E36 will do roughly 20mpg when towing. It might end up being cheaper and more convenient to just keep the Fiesta on the road, but if the worst happens on track I don't have a vehicle to get the Fiesta home.
I'd had a quick look and yeah that figure was with a caravan so hopefully trailer and car might be higher. But it supposedly does 30mpg on its own so not too hopeful.
Multicar insurance worked out more expensive than 2 policies. And at 19, on a modified 1.6 Fiesta ZS, 2 years NCB is saving me £40.
Multicar insurance worked out more expensive than 2 policies. And at 19, on a modified 1.6 Fiesta ZS, 2 years NCB is saving me £40.
it all sounds a right faff.....
why don't they label it thus:
this trailer weighs 400kg ex works
It is designed to have a maximum load of 1100kg applied to it.
make sure your tow vehicle is allowed to tow 1500kg, if less, adjust load accordingly.
Is that really too difficult for those divs in government to understand
why don't they label it thus:
this trailer weighs 400kg ex works
It is designed to have a maximum load of 1100kg applied to it.
make sure your tow vehicle is allowed to tow 1500kg, if less, adjust load accordingly.
Is that really too difficult for those divs in government to understand
Greg_D said:
it all sounds a right faff.....
why don't they label it thus:
this trailer weighs 400kg ex works
It is designed to have a maximum load of 1100kg applied to it.
make sure your tow vehicle is allowed to tow 1500kg, if less, adjust load accordingly.
Is that really too difficult for those divs in government to understand
I sort of agree. But I think it is more complex. Something like a Land Rover 110 can tow quite a heavy weight and indeed a lot more than what it actually weighs. This would be quite different to towing a small Halfords 2 wheel trailer behind a Focus.why don't they label it thus:
this trailer weighs 400kg ex works
It is designed to have a maximum load of 1100kg applied to it.
make sure your tow vehicle is allowed to tow 1500kg, if less, adjust load accordingly.
Is that really too difficult for those divs in government to understand
not really, if the label said you can only put 100kg inside the halfords special due to it being a crap trailer and thus only having an 'all up' weight of 200kg then so be it.
you have 2 issues here, the tow car's ability to tow a given load and the trailers ability to support a given load, the lesser of the 2 numbers is the law, simple....
you have 2 issues here, the tow car's ability to tow a given load and the trailers ability to support a given load, the lesser of the 2 numbers is the law, simple....
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