Ford Puma v Ignis Sport v 106 GTI / Rallye
Discussion
I reckon I've narrowed down my choice of three cheap cars to replace the Zed to these three.
I would spend up to £1,500, the Ignis just about gets there.
Which one of these would be the most fun, while being cheap to run?
The Puma has popularity in its favour. Lots of them about, cheap parts etc. They handle well, have a nice engine, but am a still a little nervous of their reputation for rust.
The Ignis seems a bit "special" in comparison, a bit more bespoke, rare, hardcore, like a 106 Rallye for the modern day, and done with Jap reliability. This appeals hugely. Not pretty though!
The 106 or Saxo seem like a good choice IF I can find an unmolested one, but its French, what is the bork factor like in comparison to say a Clio 172 (no I don't want another one). Saxo seems cheaper, but not as desirable. Rallye would be my choice, but rare and expensive.
I'd even thought about a 205 GTI but maybe this is just too long in the tooth / temperamental nowadays?
I would spend up to £1,500, the Ignis just about gets there.
Which one of these would be the most fun, while being cheap to run?
The Puma has popularity in its favour. Lots of them about, cheap parts etc. They handle well, have a nice engine, but am a still a little nervous of their reputation for rust.
The Ignis seems a bit "special" in comparison, a bit more bespoke, rare, hardcore, like a 106 Rallye for the modern day, and done with Jap reliability. This appeals hugely. Not pretty though!
The 106 or Saxo seem like a good choice IF I can find an unmolested one, but its French, what is the bork factor like in comparison to say a Clio 172 (no I don't want another one). Saxo seems cheaper, but not as desirable. Rallye would be my choice, but rare and expensive.
I'd even thought about a 205 GTI but maybe this is just too long in the tooth / temperamental nowadays?
The 106 isn't as unreliable as the french name gets a rep for, and when they do go wrong they're massively cheaper and easier to fix than the equivalent 182/172. £1500 should buy you a relatively unmolested Rallye, although most mods end up being induction, exhaust and small lowering - genuine improvements if done right.
I think the puma rust issues are overblown, but then I have owned a fair few cars with actual rust issues so my perspective may be somewhat different. My T reg one with over 100k miles is just starting to show a 5p sized bubble on one arch, and that is it for the entire car. I think that's perfectly acceptable on a 14 year old car.
Saxo's and 106's are about as basic to work on as you'll get, and easy to repair.
I have a VTS, and it's been utterly reliable. Ish.
Watch the rear beams, camber on the back wheels means fitting a new rear beam basically, as the bearings wear in the trailing arms. Also depending on how they're driven, they can eat driveshafts and bottom arms.
Generally, everything is very cheap to replace though. And it's all easily do it yourself.
I honestly don't think you can go wrong with a bobby basic 106 / saxo either 1.0 petrol or 1.5d, they have less to go wrong, the suspension is simpler with no front ARB / drop links on the basic models, and they're hilariously good fun to hoon about in really, as well as returning silly MPG on a run.
1.5d's are slow, but unbelieveably frugal and agricultural into the bargain, 1.0 petrols are nearly as economical, and are pretty rev happy little lumps really, I had an SPi and used to get 50+ mpg commuting, VTS still gets around 40mpg on a run, but comparably the VTS is nothing like as reliable as the 1.0 and 1.5d I had. The 1.5d needed an alternator, the 1.0 literally had nothing including tyres during the 30k I put on it.
The VTS is much more fun, but so far has had:
Head Gasket
Timing Belt
Bottom Arms
Driveshafts
Brake Upgrade - Not required, but as cheap as replacing discs / pads on standards
Clutch
Water Pump
Coil Pack
Rear Beam
Rear brake caliper
Gear Linkages
Exhaust
Drop Links
Track Rod Ends
It is driven hard, but these all mount up. It's definitely something that requires tinkering to keep it right, but it's great fun. If I wasn't going to SORN it at the weekend it would be needing an engine mount and a gearbox, as the diff's now on it's way out.
I have a VTS, and it's been utterly reliable. Ish.
Watch the rear beams, camber on the back wheels means fitting a new rear beam basically, as the bearings wear in the trailing arms. Also depending on how they're driven, they can eat driveshafts and bottom arms.
Generally, everything is very cheap to replace though. And it's all easily do it yourself.
I honestly don't think you can go wrong with a bobby basic 106 / saxo either 1.0 petrol or 1.5d, they have less to go wrong, the suspension is simpler with no front ARB / drop links on the basic models, and they're hilariously good fun to hoon about in really, as well as returning silly MPG on a run.
1.5d's are slow, but unbelieveably frugal and agricultural into the bargain, 1.0 petrols are nearly as economical, and are pretty rev happy little lumps really, I had an SPi and used to get 50+ mpg commuting, VTS still gets around 40mpg on a run, but comparably the VTS is nothing like as reliable as the 1.0 and 1.5d I had. The 1.5d needed an alternator, the 1.0 literally had nothing including tyres during the 30k I put on it.
The VTS is much more fun, but so far has had:
Head Gasket
Timing Belt
Bottom Arms
Driveshafts
Brake Upgrade - Not required, but as cheap as replacing discs / pads on standards
Clutch
Water Pump
Coil Pack
Rear Beam
Rear brake caliper
Gear Linkages
Exhaust
Drop Links
Track Rod Ends
It is driven hard, but these all mount up. It's definitely something that requires tinkering to keep it right, but it's great fun. If I wasn't going to SORN it at the weekend it would be needing an engine mount and a gearbox, as the diff's now on it's way out.
DanielJames said:
Has to be the 106/VTS for me.
They do break but are cheap to fix.
Absolute riot to drive as well.
Agreed, but my concern is if the OP was previously intimidated with changing a radiator on a clio, then the constant tinkering might get tiring very quickly.They do break but are cheap to fix.
Absolute riot to drive as well.
Brilliant cars, but I'm always fiddling with mine to keep it right. I've no problem with that, but it's something to be aware of. I imagine it'd be great if I didn't drive it as hard, but it's that much fun when you're out in it it's hard not too.
RizzoTheRat said:
At that price range the Pumas which are going to rust will be pretty obvious. Check round the rear arches and if all looks good assume it's one of the better made ones.
Imo there are no 'better made ones' or very little any you go to see which haven't got bubbling take a good magnet to see how much filler they used or try find the work in the history to get an idea if it was a backstreet £100 job or not.Don't automatically assume the frenchys will be rot free either I had a phase 2 vtr it was so rotton on the rear crossmember I was told not to tow anything!
No experience with the ignis but I don't think you'd be disappointed with the 106/rallye or the puma.
Just to add I had a 205 gti which was on 149k when I sold It I ran it for a year daily in that year I never had a major breakdown the only thing i'd note was the clutch cable snapping twice.Thats it! so yes they can be ran daily in this price range.
Edited by petrolsniffer on Wednesday 27th March 10:36
I had an Ignis Sport on the list when looking for my last car and went to see one but it just looks so 80s, outside and in that it was immediately crossed off the list without further ado. Sounds better in theory than reality. 106 for me based on a Saxo diesel I once hired which I quite took a shine to.
Hmm.
You'd probably get a decent Mk 1 Focus for £1500 quid. That's where my money would go I think.
That way you'll still get some refinement / creature comforts and a car that is still great fun to drive. As much as something like a 106 Rallye is cool (and they ARE cool!) it's still just a really basic hatchback, which would grate on me as my only car.
You'd probably get a decent Mk 1 Focus for £1500 quid. That's where my money would go I think.
That way you'll still get some refinement / creature comforts and a car that is still great fun to drive. As much as something like a 106 Rallye is cool (and they ARE cool!) it's still just a really basic hatchback, which would grate on me as my only car.
TheJimi said:
Hmm.
You'd probably get a decent Mk 1 Focus for £1500 quid. That's where my money would go I think.
That way you'll still get some refinement / creature comforts and a car that is still great fun to drive. As much as something like a 106 Rallye is cool (and they ARE cool!) it's still just a really basic hatchback, which would grate on me as my only car.
The Mk1 Focus I do like, not very good on the old go-go juice though from what I've heard.You'd probably get a decent Mk 1 Focus for £1500 quid. That's where my money would go I think.
That way you'll still get some refinement / creature comforts and a car that is still great fun to drive. As much as something like a 106 Rallye is cool (and they ARE cool!) it's still just a really basic hatchback, which would grate on me as my only car.
TheJimi said:
Sorry, to answer the question in the OP - my choice would be the Ignis. I say this having never driven one but I've driven a VTS and I couldn't get on with it - hated the gearshift. Dunno if a 106 is any different, I haven't driven one.
The Ignis seems to be one of those marmite cars, people who have them seem to like them, I'm not sold on the looks, but TBH at this price, I can't be choosy.TheJimi said:
Sorry, to answer the question in the OP - my choice would be the Ignis. I say this having never driven one but I've driven a VTS and I couldn't get on with it - hated the gearshift. Dunno if a 106 is any different, I haven't driven one.
The mechanicals are the same. The gearshift is a point often derided - you can improve it in various stages depending how far you can move from originality, but it's the worst part of the driving experience.To be honest, with how good the rest of it is, it's a minor concern.
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