M4 relief road: Chancellor 'to approve toll plan'
Discussion
M4 relief road: Chancellor 'to approve toll plan' Ok Mr. Osborne, here's a difficult question or five. Are there any existing toll roads in the UK ? Has it ever made a profit, and/or benefited traffic flow/congestion? Is it well supported and used? Do the motoring public like them? Do you have an ounce of intelligence?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21999518
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21999518
robinessex said:
mat205125 said:
M6 Toll ???
Loads of other toll roads and bridges about too.
% questions in the topic. Would you care to answer each individualy ?Loads of other toll roads and bridges about too.
mat205125 said:
robinessex said:
mat205125 said:
M6 Toll ???
Loads of other toll roads and bridges about too.
% questions in the topic. Would you care to answer each individualy ?Loads of other toll roads and bridges about too.
Yes
No
No
No
No
See:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/14/m6-...
The M6 toll road was supposed to be a very British romance. A marriage of public infrastructure and private investment, it was consummated by 2.5m Mills & Boon novels that were pulped and then blended into its tarmac.
But that is the closest this project has come to a happy ending. The owner of the flagship toll road – the Australian Macquarie group – has slashed the value of its investment in a move that does not bode well for David Cameron's ambitions for a private sector-backed infrastructure spree.
For all the hope invested in it, the toll is a relatively modest stretch of the UK's 2,211-mile motorway network: a 27-mile route that runs from the National Exhibition Centre in the south-east of Birmingham to Cannock in Staffordshire.
But Macquarie, a seasoned player in this market, has written £150m off the value of its subsidiary, Midland Expressway, which operates the road.
In a Companies House filing, Macquarie Motorways Group (MMG) blamed the recession and higher interest rates as the number of motorists willing to pay £5.50 for a 20-minute trip – lorries, vans and coaches must pay £11 – dwindles. It has written 20% off the value of its M6 toll road investment.
In the year to December 2011, MMG racked up losses of £224m, more than double those recorded in the previous 18 months, and it owes more than £1bn to its banks – debt that was piled into the company six years ago, in part to provide a near £400m payout to Macquarie.
"Given the continuing uncertainty in the UK economic outlook, MMG has decided to reduce the carrying value of its investment in MEL [Midland Expressway] based on its revised return expectations over the remaining 42 years of the concession," an MMG spokesman said.
The financial problems at the M6 toll road will unnerve private sector investors who are now being courted by the prime minister and the chancellor, George Osborne, to pay for an upgrade of Britain's road network. In March, Cameron said: "We need to look urgently at the options for getting large-scale private investment into the national roads network – from sovereign wealth funds, pension funds, and other investors."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/14/m6-...
The M6 toll road was supposed to be a very British romance. A marriage of public infrastructure and private investment, it was consummated by 2.5m Mills & Boon novels that were pulped and then blended into its tarmac.
But that is the closest this project has come to a happy ending. The owner of the flagship toll road – the Australian Macquarie group – has slashed the value of its investment in a move that does not bode well for David Cameron's ambitions for a private sector-backed infrastructure spree.
For all the hope invested in it, the toll is a relatively modest stretch of the UK's 2,211-mile motorway network: a 27-mile route that runs from the National Exhibition Centre in the south-east of Birmingham to Cannock in Staffordshire.
But Macquarie, a seasoned player in this market, has written £150m off the value of its subsidiary, Midland Expressway, which operates the road.
In a Companies House filing, Macquarie Motorways Group (MMG) blamed the recession and higher interest rates as the number of motorists willing to pay £5.50 for a 20-minute trip – lorries, vans and coaches must pay £11 – dwindles. It has written 20% off the value of its M6 toll road investment.
In the year to December 2011, MMG racked up losses of £224m, more than double those recorded in the previous 18 months, and it owes more than £1bn to its banks – debt that was piled into the company six years ago, in part to provide a near £400m payout to Macquarie.
"Given the continuing uncertainty in the UK economic outlook, MMG has decided to reduce the carrying value of its investment in MEL [Midland Expressway] based on its revised return expectations over the remaining 42 years of the concession," an MMG spokesman said.
The financial problems at the M6 toll road will unnerve private sector investors who are now being courted by the prime minister and the chancellor, George Osborne, to pay for an upgrade of Britain's road network. In March, Cameron said: "We need to look urgently at the options for getting large-scale private investment into the national roads network – from sovereign wealth funds, pension funds, and other investors."
Happy to use toll roads when I've any significant distance to travel, always a joy to get away from the traffic jams caused by people on short journeys hopping on at one junction and off at the next. Main land European toll roads work really well why shouldn't they in the UK once people are used to the idea?
Went on a great one yesterday coming in to Malaga from Granada series of massive viaducts and tunnels amazing road, probably paid for by the EU which isn't how any new roads we want will be paid for but anyway a ~10 mile dual carriageway along coastal flatlands shouldn't be quite as costly as one spanning valleys and cutting through mountains.
Went on a great one yesterday coming in to Malaga from Granada series of massive viaducts and tunnels amazing road, probably paid for by the EU which isn't how any new roads we want will be paid for but anyway a ~10 mile dual carriageway along coastal flatlands shouldn't be quite as costly as one spanning valleys and cutting through mountains.
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Tuesday 2nd April 13:26
robinessex said:
mat205125 said:
robinessex said:
mat205125 said:
M6 Toll ???
Loads of other toll roads and bridges about too.
% questions in the topic. Would you care to answer each individualy ?Loads of other toll roads and bridges about too.
Yes
No
No
No
No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Doubtful
from my good experiences with using the M6 toll at times when the other route may have been more congested (as I didn't undertake the journey as an experiment, I didn't turn around and try the other route of size, or send a "control" test car along the traditional route)
Not all traffic policy and suggestions from the government need to be dismissed so aggressively .... I bet you'd be criticising a vocally if they were doing nothing about easing congestion on our roads too.
mat205125 said:
robinessex said:
mat205125 said:
robinessex said:
mat205125 said:
M6 Toll ???
Loads of other toll roads and bridges about too.
% questions in the topic. Would you care to answer each individualy ?Loads of other toll roads and bridges about too.
Yes
No
No
No
No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Doubtful
from my good experiences with using the M6 toll at times when the other route may have been more congested (as I didn't undertake the journey as an experiment, I didn't turn around and try the other route of size, or send a "control" test car along the traditional route)
Not all traffic policy and suggestions from the government need to be dismissed so aggressively .... I bet you'd be criticising a vocally if they were doing nothing about easing congestion on our roads too.
hornetrider said:
So they want to toll the relief road when we've just paid 6 quid to come over the bridge?! 
I think they underestimate how tight/skint the people from the South Wales valleys are. It'll be like a ghost road.
Wagons pay 18 quid.I think they underestimate how tight/skint the people from the South Wales valleys are. It'll be like a ghost road.
Back on topic. The M4 through S Wales is very congested at peak times. One bump and the only real way into and out of S Wales from the west is shut. The tunnels have had a few in recent years.
It is even as bad as micro managing the traffic flow, if there is a slight gust the whole S Wales corridor get 50 mph slapped on it. I can drive home through a typical rainy day weather OK until I get to S Wales, then it is 50 and signs saying it is raining, take care.
I think it is a good idea but prefer it not to be a toll. If it was a toll, I would use it, the standard of driving around going home time anywhere is a mare.
Symbolica said:
Are people really going to pay £6 to cross the bridge, and fork out another load immediately for a toll road?
Well, the bridge only has a certain number of years left it can take the toll. Not sure how long. But hey, the welsh government just bought an airport, why not a motorway? Sorry, money given to the Welsh government.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21952079
jmorgan said:
Well, the bridge only has a certain number of years left it can take the toll. Not sure how long. But hey, the welsh government just bought an airport, why not a motorway? Sorry, money given to the Welsh government.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21952079
Just like the Dartford crossing. Which they kept the toll on after it was fully paid for. Surprise, surprise.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21952079
robinessex said:
jmorgan said:
Well, the bridge only has a certain number of years left it can take the toll. Not sure how long. But hey, the welsh government just bought an airport, why not a motorway? Sorry, money given to the Welsh government.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21952079
Just like the Dartford crossing. Which they kept the toll on after it was fully paid for. Surprise, surprise.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21952079
jmorgan said:
robinessex said:
jmorgan said:
Well, the bridge only has a certain number of years left it can take the toll. Not sure how long. But hey, the welsh government just bought an airport, why not a motorway? Sorry, money given to the Welsh government.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21952079
Just like the Dartford crossing. Which they kept the toll on after it was fully paid for. Surprise, surprise.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21952079
Symbolica said:
Are people really going to pay £6 to cross the bridge, and fork out another load immediately for a toll road?
Given that the M4 around Newport is just an absolute nightmare, as long as the cost is very low, quite possibly. Alternatively, given that heading out of Wales is free on the bridge, you introduce tolls on just heading out via the toll road and include the toll road charge as part of a small rise in the cost of the bridge.To be honest, I can see it being used plenty when there's congestion trouble, which is fairly often.
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