RE: Corvette Stingray: PH Blog
Wednesday 3rd April 2013
From Clios to BMW M cars, unless you've been living under a rock for the last few months you'll have picked up on a degree of soul searching about what we want out of our fast cars. And in particular how to balance a nerdy delight in high tech with a desire to not be relegated to mere passenger in a gizmo-laden, digitally enhanced four-wheeled missile.
The basic ingredients look good for startersWell, maybe I'm just high on a dose of pro-American sentiment after a few days at the New York show but I reckon it may be time to turn our backs on Europe and embrace a more Stateside attitude to fast cars. In particular, the new Corvette Stingray which, for my money, might just be the most PH-worthy mainstream sports car I've seen for a long, long time.
Track mode display same as race car'sAdmitting that, industry-wide, manual gearboxes are going the way of the starter crank and wind-up windows and that the Stingray will be available with an auto he nonetheless boasts "if you want a traditional three-pedal manual we have the best one that's ever been done!" Which sounds like marketing hyperbole but he does a convincing sales job, the redundant paddle shifters on the manual's wheel now used to toggle rev-matching on up and downshifts on the Tremec seven-speeder as and when you want it. "It can tell which way you're going with the shifter so if you're going up a gear, down a gear, down two gears it knows what you're doing," he says. "You dip the clutch and you can try out two or three different gears, pick the one you want, dump the clutch and it's perfectly smooth. We played around with turning it on and off to find out if we could do it better and there points on the track with certain shift conditions where we could. So we wanted very quick access to the system, rather than burying it in the menus." And Porsche moving to PDK only for the GT3? "Music to my ears!" he says, with a grin.
The 'fun meter' according to Tadge JuechterSame with the safety systems. Sure, the Stingray has 12 adjustable parameters for steering, throttle response, dampers, stability control and the rest of it. So it's on a par with any European rival in terms of technology. But Juechter refers to the five-stage mode dial as the 'fun meter' and says "we put our money into technology that enhances the driver experience." Hence carbon panels and other weight saving over lane-keeping assist and other gizmos. "We figure that if people want to buy this car they want the experience of driving it."
Dramatic looks and smaller than you'd thinkAnd if you really are keen on driving your Corvette on track there's a Z51 pack, which gets you a dry-sump oil system, chunkier Bilstein dampers, coolers for transmission, diff and oil system, additional cooling ducts, forged 19-inch wheels and a proper fully active locking diff. Imagine speccing a 911 up with that kind of kit and then scoop your jaw off the floor when you hear that lot - all of it - will cost "about $3,000" as a single tick on the options list. A quick hop over to the US market 911 configurator reveals that would score you - just - a sports exhaust. A Powerkit upgrade on a Carrera 2 S? $17,800.
Corvette Stingray: PH Blog
Disillusioned with the GT3? Left cold by the GT-R? God bless America, the Yanks may have the answer
The basic ingredients look good for starters
An American friend also admitted to being impressed with the new 'vette, while saying "to scratch that itch I may need to lose some hair and invest in some gold chains", suggesting there may be some emotional baggage to buying a new Stingray in its homeland. Unencumbered by such prejudice, though, I'm a huge fan, especially after meeting project chief Tadge Juechter at the show and chatting over the new car.
Now, following the above stereotype you might expect Juechter to be the George 'Blood'n'guts' Patton of automotive engineering, all pearl-handled pistols and slapping anyone meekly suggesting they should downsize to something smaller than a 6.2-litre V8. Nothing could be further from the truth. Steely, intelligent and quietly spoken, Juechter is the equal of Porsche GT3 man Andreas Preuninger, Audi RS boss Stephan Reil or AMG development head Tobias Moers. And he'd seem to have a very sharp focus on what fast cars should deliver - fun. Not a word you'll often hear from his German peers.
Track mode display same as race car's
The 'fun meter' according to Tadge Juechter
It even feels quite neat and small from the inside and nothing like as unwieldy and oversized as the C6, fast as it was. Narrower tyres, a 45kg weight saving from the aluminium structure and further savings on body and suspension components all suggest it'll be lighter on its feet too. While packing a 6.2-litre V8 with 450hp.
Dramatic looks and smaller than you'd think
This on top of the fact that a 2 S, in base spec, would set you back double the circa-$50,000 the Stingray will cost in the US. Sure, by the time it reaches Europe that gap will narrow considerably and it won't be the bargain it is on home turf. Left-hand drive will put many off too. But will make European road trips more viable, whether that takes in one-way toll roads or not.
Snobby European attitudes would have you believe the Americans are only interested in - and capable of - building ever bigger V8s. A few could be in for a nasty surprise when the Corvette lands. I, for one, will be flying a stars and stripes when it does.
Dan
Discussion
Always loved corvettes, and wasn't surprised when their brief shot at a small dealer network collapsed.
For the money (in the US) they are outstanding value, but would a porker owner really think outside the box to swap to one of these ... I doubt it personally
I can't help feel this shouldn't be called 'stingray' though as that's some very big iconic boots to fill
For the money (in the US) they are outstanding value, but would a porker owner really think outside the box to swap to one of these ... I doubt it personally
I can't help feel this shouldn't be called 'stingray' though as that's some very big iconic boots to fill
I believe the Nissan 370Z set the trend with these rev-matching manuals, now there are quite a few of them, including the US F10 Manual M5, I really want to drive one – although I can imagine when you’re in the zone it will be slightly counter intuitive, you might find yourself rolling your right foot onto the throttle by force of habit – which does beg the question, what happens if you throttle blip when the system is on?
Also, what I don’t understand though is how at some points on track they say the system isn’t as good and heal and toeing yourself. Surely a perfect rev-match via the system is as good as it gets, how can the system fall down under certain conditions?
Also, what I don’t understand though is how at some points on track they say the system isn’t as good and heal and toeing yourself. Surely a perfect rev-match via the system is as good as it gets, how can the system fall down under certain conditions?
Price is the key - this or a non-S Cayman, with no options.
As a current Porker owner, I'm in. LHD isn't such a problem; dealer support and warranty, however, is.
I like the looks, especially in red. Interior looks sorted. Track pack a bargain. Rarer than a 991 too.
What's not to like?
Oh, hang on, the quad exhausts.
As a current Porker owner, I'm in. LHD isn't such a problem; dealer support and warranty, however, is.
I like the looks, especially in red. Interior looks sorted. Track pack a bargain. Rarer than a 991 too.
What's not to like?
Oh, hang on, the quad exhausts.
Gibbo205 said:
Awesome bit of kit.
Can't wait to see how this does at some tracks should be a 911 rival for sure. But question is will it also be great on a road like a 911 as that is where the American cars can sometimes suffer, I know having owned one previous and now being a 911 owner.
Can't argue with that! Can't wait to see how this does at some tracks should be a 911 rival for sure. But question is will it also be great on a road like a 911 as that is where the American cars can sometimes suffer, I know having owned one previous and now being a 911 owner.
But it all looks hopeful and, as I say, inside it felt more 911-sized than the C6 I'd previously driven which just felt so wide on UK roads. We shall see. Dan
Mitch2.0 said:
Also, what I don’t understand though is how at some points on track they say the system isn’t as good and heal and toeing yourself. Surely a perfect rev-match via the system is as good as it gets, how can the system fall down under certain conditions?
I think Juechter was saying that, yes, you can do it yourself and there are certain times when a manual blip is better. Clever as it is the system can't see that 5th to 2nd hairpin approaching for instance and pre-empt the change in road speed under heavy braking. But it's still a step ahead of most systems, which apparently react once the gear is selected and before you let the clutch out. The 'vette one uses a magnetic sensor in the shifter gate which knows where you're shifting from and to and pre-blips accordingly. It also works on upshifts as a result. So, as he described, you can move the shifter around the gate with the clutch in and get different revs according to which gear it thinks you're going to select. He said when they were developing it they used to muck about and use it to play tunes! I guess you're probably not going to do that in the approach to the aforementioned hairpin on a track but it'd liven up a tunnel run! The paddles mean you can switch it on and off as and when too. So you could literally turn it on for one corner and off for the next. As he says, it's just another toy to fiddle with, if you want. Or you can turn it off and DIY. Dan
Dan Trent said:
I think Juechter was saying that, yes, you can do it yourself and there are certain times when a manual blip is better. Clever as it is the system can't see that 5th to 2nd hairpin approaching for instance and pre-empt the change in road speed under heavy braking. But it's still a step ahead of most systems, which apparently react once the gear is selected and before you let the clutch out. The 'vette one uses a magnetic sensor in the shifter gate which knows where you're shifting from and to and pre-blips accordingly. It also works on upshifts as a result. So, as he described, you can move the shifter around the gate with the clutch in and get different revs according to which gear it thinks you're going to select. He said when they were developing it they used to muck about and use it to play tunes! I guess you're probably not going to do that in the approach to the aforementioned hairpin on a track but it'd liven up a tunnel run! The paddles mean you can switch it on and off as and when too. So you could literally turn it on for one corner and off for the next. As he says, it's just another toy to fiddle with, if you want. Or you can turn it off and DIY.
Dan
Ah I see, so block changing whilst under heavy braking can fool it. (5th - 2nd in a ‘Vette, nice example Dan, lol 4th is good for what, 150mph in one of these? Hehe)Dan
I can understand why rev-match before the cog is engaged has advantages, because then the engine has more time to match, plus it’s kinder on the box – after all, when I rev-match it’s all done in one motion but thinking about it I certainly blip before the cog goes in. However I wonder if it holds the revs to the road speed or just blips it – otherwise I could go from say 3rd to 2nd, the system would blip let’s say, but if I was slow releasing the clutch for whatever reason then the revs would have had time to fall.
The most recent handful of Corvette generations have really appealed to me more and more. This one really has upped the game to the stage where it isn't just an interesting alternative, however perhaps getting close to being the benchmark for the sector of the market. The pictures seem to indicate the the comical US materials have been consigned to (be used to make) the dustbin, and only the LHD only disappointment remains.
Would it really be beyond the US to engineer their cars for RHD for us UK/South Africa/Japan/Aus & NZ enthusiasts ... even at a premium?
Would it really be beyond the US to engineer their cars for RHD for us UK/South Africa/Japan/Aus & NZ enthusiasts ... even at a premium?
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff