Do all Main Dealers Push Diesel Cars
Discussion
I know there have been a million diesel vs petrol threads, but this one concerns dealers, and the general publics attitude to diesel.
I have had experience of my dad owning diesel cars when the price difference was quite great, and obviously the fuel benefits were greater, however I have noticed when helping a friend buy a car, that the dealers disregard the petrol versions and push diesel. My friend wanted an Audi A4, and I suggested the 2.0 tfsi, however the dealer kept saying the diesel was better blah blah without even asking what sort of use the car was even going to have. I did some research and it seems that the 2.0 tfsi gives not only more power, but comparable economy; as lots of 2.0 tdi owners have been complaining of poor mpg.
Anyway, has diesel attained some cult status that the petrol models are completely disregarded? On asking what about DPF issues and all the other expensive parts such as injectors etc. the dealer simply dismissed my comments and my friend bought the car. His reasoning was that he was saving on road tax and insurance (a negligible cost as he will barely do 8000 miles in the car). Anyway I was a bit annoyed how he didn't even consider my advice, but as long as he enjoys his car then that's the most important thing. It just seems to me that people are missing out on a lot and paying more when they think they are saving money. The premium my friend paid on the diesel will never be gained in economy and he could have enjoyed a petrol (which he prefers) but he is doing it all for the sake of "economy."
I have had experience of my dad owning diesel cars when the price difference was quite great, and obviously the fuel benefits were greater, however I have noticed when helping a friend buy a car, that the dealers disregard the petrol versions and push diesel. My friend wanted an Audi A4, and I suggested the 2.0 tfsi, however the dealer kept saying the diesel was better blah blah without even asking what sort of use the car was even going to have. I did some research and it seems that the 2.0 tfsi gives not only more power, but comparable economy; as lots of 2.0 tdi owners have been complaining of poor mpg.
Anyway, has diesel attained some cult status that the petrol models are completely disregarded? On asking what about DPF issues and all the other expensive parts such as injectors etc. the dealer simply dismissed my comments and my friend bought the car. His reasoning was that he was saving on road tax and insurance (a negligible cost as he will barely do 8000 miles in the car). Anyway I was a bit annoyed how he didn't even consider my advice, but as long as he enjoys his car then that's the most important thing. It just seems to me that people are missing out on a lot and paying more when they think they are saving money. The premium my friend paid on the diesel will never be gained in economy and he could have enjoyed a petrol (which he prefers) but he is doing it all for the sake of "economy."
When I was searching for my car the first garage I went to was ford garage that also stocked alot of other brands aswell, I didnt really know what I wanted other than something fun and was pleasantly suprised when one of the first questions asled after budget was how many miles do I do. When I explained I do around 8k the salesman said 'pointless looking at diesels then'.
A good friend of mine purchased an Astra 1.9CDTi two years ago with the premise of it being economical, big on torque, cheap to insure, etc. He only does around 4k miles a year and due to the nature of his job he frequently travels very short distances between sites.
Cue massive bill for £800 for new injectors, turbo(!), etc, he soon got rid and bought himself a MK6 Fiesta ST.
No regrets since, expect the lack of torque, guess he'll have to use the gearbox more
Cue massive bill for £800 for new injectors, turbo(!), etc, he soon got rid and bought himself a MK6 Fiesta ST.
No regrets since, expect the lack of torque, guess he'll have to use the gearbox more
I was pleasantly surprised recently when I was helping my folks get a new car. I had already suggested to them that a diesel wouldn't be that suitable as they are both now retired and only do 6-8k miles a year, mostly short journeys.
The first place we went to the salesman asked first how many miles they do and then immediately said "No point looking at diesels then unless you really want one" and then went on to talk about the DPF and injector issues when modern diesels are used for short journeys.
The first place we went to the salesman asked first how many miles they do and then immediately said "No point looking at diesels then unless you really want one" and then went on to talk about the DPF and injector issues when modern diesels are used for short journeys.
As diesels generally are popular with makes that feature a lot on company car lists there's probably a large stock floating around the dealer network that they want to shift. That and the salesmen just repeat the guff they're taught in their induction training about economy and so on whether it applies to the person they're talking to or not. Challenge them about anything like DPF issues and you're going off their script and they ignore what you're saying.
t and that he was (probably) ripped off and is therefore an absolute mug.MGJohn said:
Carcharodon said:
That's a first. A honest salesman"
I wonder if the margins are higher on diesel cars?
Was about to post something similar. If the sales commission is higher for diesels ... Human nature being what it is ...I wonder if the margins are higher on diesel cars?
Personally, I think it's down to education - nearly every car advert these days babbles on about "mpg" and "economy" as if they were the only things relevant in a car. Like the OP, I know a couple of people who do school run mileage (about 4-5k per year) and have bought diesels because "it does about 60mpg". Maybe fully warmed up at 50mph on a motorway it would do that, but travelling 2 miles to drop the kids off at school it wont. The advertising has worked though...
It's sometimes hard to determine usage on a car.
I do a 6 mile round trip, 4 days a week, in rush hour traffic to get to work. 1 day a week I do 24 miles to a different office. However I may do a 60, 100, 200, etc, mile round trip to another office on a given day.
On the start stop, rush hour commute, I want an electric car. When I have to go further I want a diesel. When I'm going to a remote site which involves lots of NSL country lanes I want a petrol.
Where is the happy medium in that sort of road use?
People see figures and facts and take them as gospel. Wow 70mpg, 0VED (tax), diesel reliability, re-sale value, etc. It gives the sales people an easy life as they can tout these figures and get their bonus, without worry of Joe Public knowing any different.
I do a 6 mile round trip, 4 days a week, in rush hour traffic to get to work. 1 day a week I do 24 miles to a different office. However I may do a 60, 100, 200, etc, mile round trip to another office on a given day.
On the start stop, rush hour commute, I want an electric car. When I have to go further I want a diesel. When I'm going to a remote site which involves lots of NSL country lanes I want a petrol.
Where is the happy medium in that sort of road use?
People see figures and facts and take them as gospel. Wow 70mpg, 0VED (tax), diesel reliability, re-sale value, etc. It gives the sales people an easy life as they can tout these figures and get their bonus, without worry of Joe Public knowing any different.
Never understand this "diesel only worth buying if you drive more than 15K miles a year". This seems to assume that everyone buys new cars and trades in for a new one after 3 years.
As I am buying at 12-18 months old and will keep the car for 5 years then I will drive the car for more than 50K miles. As I am buying to a budget I won't pay more for a diesel than a petrol just buy a car a little older.
Buying diesel rather than petrol will save me around £450/annum on fuel and road fund license, so around £2200 over the time I own the car. However, DPF problems, etc. do concern me.
My annual approximate 10-11K annual mileage breaks down into:
Journeys up to 5 miles 1500
Journeys up to 15 miles 1000
Journeys up to 30 miles 1500
Journeys up to 100 miles 3000
Journeys up to 200 miles 1000
Journeys over 200 miles 2500
I prefer to drive a petrol engine car but saving £2200 is not to be dismissed. With the cars I am considering there are far more petrol than diesel versions available at 12-18 months old. Some diesels on sale have covered less than 7K miles in 18 months!
As I am buying at 12-18 months old and will keep the car for 5 years then I will drive the car for more than 50K miles. As I am buying to a budget I won't pay more for a diesel than a petrol just buy a car a little older.
Buying diesel rather than petrol will save me around £450/annum on fuel and road fund license, so around £2200 over the time I own the car. However, DPF problems, etc. do concern me.
My annual approximate 10-11K annual mileage breaks down into:
Journeys up to 5 miles 1500
Journeys up to 15 miles 1000
Journeys up to 30 miles 1500
Journeys up to 100 miles 3000
Journeys up to 200 miles 1000
Journeys over 200 miles 2500
I prefer to drive a petrol engine car but saving £2200 is not to be dismissed. With the cars I am considering there are far more petrol than diesel versions available at 12-18 months old. Some diesels on sale have covered less than 7K miles in 18 months!
Glosphil said:
Never understand this "diesel only worth buying if you drive more than 15K miles a year". This seems to assume that everyone buys new cars and trades in for a new one after 3 years.
It's mainly because people who do low mileage often also do short journeys. If your 5k per year is a few massive motorway jaunts then a diesel is a good choice. If your 5k per year is dropping Tarquin off at school 800 yards down the road then popping to waitrose and home then a diesel is not going to serve you well.Glosphil said:
Never understand this "diesel only worth buying if you drive more than 15K miles a year". This seems to assume that everyone buys new cars and trades in for a new one after 3 years.
As I am buying at 12-18 months old and will keep the car for 5 years then I will drive the car for more than 50K miles. As I am buying to a budget I won't pay more for a diesel than a petrol just buy a car a little older.
Buying diesel rather than petrol will save me around £450/annum on fuel and road fund license, so around £2200 over the time I own the car. However, DPF problems, etc. do concern me.
My annual approximate 10-11K annual mileage breaks down into:
Journeys up to 5 miles 1500
Journeys up to 15 miles 1000
Journeys up to 30 miles 1500
Journeys up to 100 miles 3000
Journeys up to 200 miles 1000
Journeys over 200 miles 2500
I prefer to drive a petrol engine car but saving £2200 is not to be dismissed. With the cars I am considering there are far more petrol than diesel versions available at 12-18 months old. Some diesels on sale have covered less than 7K miles in 18 months!
You fail to show where you save £2200, what was the purchase price of the diesel and the petrol, what are the service intervals and parts costs, what's the depreciation on both models? You've gone into it blind unless you know these costs too.As I am buying at 12-18 months old and will keep the car for 5 years then I will drive the car for more than 50K miles. As I am buying to a budget I won't pay more for a diesel than a petrol just buy a car a little older.
Buying diesel rather than petrol will save me around £450/annum on fuel and road fund license, so around £2200 over the time I own the car. However, DPF problems, etc. do concern me.
My annual approximate 10-11K annual mileage breaks down into:
Journeys up to 5 miles 1500
Journeys up to 15 miles 1000
Journeys up to 30 miles 1500
Journeys up to 100 miles 3000
Journeys up to 200 miles 1000
Journeys over 200 miles 2500
I prefer to drive a petrol engine car but saving £2200 is not to be dismissed. With the cars I am considering there are far more petrol than diesel versions available at 12-18 months old. Some diesels on sale have covered less than 7K miles in 18 months!
Saving £450 per year is an expensive price to pay for not driving your preferred car is it not? That's £37.50 per month total saving, assuming your figures are correct. Given how much time we spend sat in cars, and assuming that you have at least a casual interest given that this is Pistonheads, I'd just get the petrol personally!
My OH followed the TDi train of thought when we were looking to buy her TT, and the dealer was quite happy to try and put her into an undesirable black one with a poor spec and in the worst possible colour, black.
After discussing with her that we 1, don't do much miles so don't need a diesel any more, 2, the car they were trying to sell her was awful, and 3, she will hate it after about a week, she decided to heed my advice and ended up with a TT-S
Ironically when the saleswoman spoke to my OHthe first TT she showed her was the diesel one, and to be honest I couldn't think of anything worse, a TT with that god awful 2.0 TDi VAG engine, yuck.
It seems to me that dealers are very pro diesel in my limited experience, however we bought what was right for us and not what the dealer wanted to sell us
After discussing with her that we 1, don't do much miles so don't need a diesel any more, 2, the car they were trying to sell her was awful, and 3, she will hate it after about a week, she decided to heed my advice and ended up with a TT-S
Ironically when the saleswoman spoke to my OHthe first TT she showed her was the diesel one, and to be honest I couldn't think of anything worse, a TT with that god awful 2.0 TDi VAG engine, yuck.
It seems to me that dealers are very pro diesel in my limited experience, however we bought what was right for us and not what the dealer wanted to sell us
jamieduff1981 said:
Saving £450 per year is an expensive price to pay for not driving your preferred car is it not? That's £37.50 per month total saving, assuming your figures are correct. Given how much time we spend sat in cars, and assuming that you have at least a casual interest given that this is Pistonheads, I'd just get the petrol personally!
+1There is a lot to be said for driving the car you like. I justified switching my 3.0 diesel for a 4.4 petrol even though it costs me abound £1500-2000 more to fuel per year. But I could have bought a golf bluemotion and gained 60mpgeee. With the savings on fuel but the cost of depreciation I.thought life was too short. I love my v8's, I don't want to spent 20k a year or 2 hours a working day in a washing machine. I want to walk about to it and think, yeah, that's mine. Try and glimpse a cheeky peek whenever possible. To me that's worth the extra expense alone.
Costs can not always be worked out on a spreadsheet. A car is an emotional decision too.
Edited by The Big G on Monday 20th May 07:36
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