How does a 19/20 year old find a decent car?
Discussion
Hi guys, I'm 20 in July and I'll have been driving for 2 years with 2 years no claims bonus on my own policy. I've had a bog standard 1.2 8v Punto, Grey with black bumpers, etc since I passed my test. I paid £2200 for my first years insurance and I've been paying £1100 this year with my renewal set to be around the £600-£700 mark (possibly cheaper).
I'm really keen to get something different. I've been looking online for what seems like an eternity now and I'm just put off by everything I see. I just wondered if you guys could help by using your own experience rather than all the articles I've read that say "Best cars for young people: Citroen C1".... Yay...
I'm also sick of these genius article writers thinking that just because I'm only 19 means I can't insure anything over a 1.2 litre without paying through the roof. From my experience in shopping around, I can comfortably insure something up to around group 8-9 and I was looking at a 1.6 sport fsi 05 plate Audi A3 which my current insurers (LV) wouldn't insure me on but admiral would do it for £800 but I'd have to wait until my LV policy is up. So basically, what I'm trying to say is insurance isn't a massive deal unless it really is something silly.
Just wanted suggestions really as to a decent car to replace my punto. I do a 5 mile commute each day down country lanes so I want it to be a fairly good handler but I also make regular motorway journeys at the weekend so it needs to be comfortable there as well. My dad has a thing for not buying high mileage cars or a car that after 3 years of driving will turn into a high mileage car i.e. he'd rather I had a car with below 60k miles on it so if I drive it for 3 years it hasn't become completely worthless if it ends up with 80-90k on it so this automatically makes my search criteria quite tough.
I have two options budget wise, I can save £400-£500 a month and slog it out for a while or I've been accepted on a £5000 tesco loan at 10% apr to be paid back over 2 years. I haven't signed the papers yet as I'm still not certain whether I want to go back to college/uni so don't want to be stuck with debt preventing me from doing that. So basically if I were to save up myself I'd rather be looking at the £2000-£3000 range rather than £5k.
I'm not bothered about anything massively fast, I don't play to modify it a great deal. I just want something solid and not too sensible so I can enjoy it a little bit.
Things I've looked at so far include:
Leon
Golf
Mazda 3 Saloon
Civic sport (not type r)
BMW 1 Series
Audi A3
Volvo C30
They all just seem a bit sensible though and all of the ones I've seen that fit the bill are £5k-£6k which is the top end of what I'd like to pay and I'd have to get the loan for.
I just want some obscure suggestions, I've looked at MX-5's, MR2's, Beamer 3 series coupe's and they're all just too harsh on the insurance. I don't get it, I know people who have driven the same amount of time as me and are the same age who are buying RX-8's with over 200bhp.
Sorry for the rant and any advice would be much appreciated. Perhaps I need to stop looking at cars that 25 year olds would be able to afford and remember that I am only 19...
I'm really keen to get something different. I've been looking online for what seems like an eternity now and I'm just put off by everything I see. I just wondered if you guys could help by using your own experience rather than all the articles I've read that say "Best cars for young people: Citroen C1".... Yay...
I'm also sick of these genius article writers thinking that just because I'm only 19 means I can't insure anything over a 1.2 litre without paying through the roof. From my experience in shopping around, I can comfortably insure something up to around group 8-9 and I was looking at a 1.6 sport fsi 05 plate Audi A3 which my current insurers (LV) wouldn't insure me on but admiral would do it for £800 but I'd have to wait until my LV policy is up. So basically, what I'm trying to say is insurance isn't a massive deal unless it really is something silly.
Just wanted suggestions really as to a decent car to replace my punto. I do a 5 mile commute each day down country lanes so I want it to be a fairly good handler but I also make regular motorway journeys at the weekend so it needs to be comfortable there as well. My dad has a thing for not buying high mileage cars or a car that after 3 years of driving will turn into a high mileage car i.e. he'd rather I had a car with below 60k miles on it so if I drive it for 3 years it hasn't become completely worthless if it ends up with 80-90k on it so this automatically makes my search criteria quite tough.
I have two options budget wise, I can save £400-£500 a month and slog it out for a while or I've been accepted on a £5000 tesco loan at 10% apr to be paid back over 2 years. I haven't signed the papers yet as I'm still not certain whether I want to go back to college/uni so don't want to be stuck with debt preventing me from doing that. So basically if I were to save up myself I'd rather be looking at the £2000-£3000 range rather than £5k.
I'm not bothered about anything massively fast, I don't play to modify it a great deal. I just want something solid and not too sensible so I can enjoy it a little bit.
Things I've looked at so far include:
Leon
Golf
Mazda 3 Saloon
Civic sport (not type r)
BMW 1 Series
Audi A3
Volvo C30
They all just seem a bit sensible though and all of the ones I've seen that fit the bill are £5k-£6k which is the top end of what I'd like to pay and I'd have to get the loan for.
I just want some obscure suggestions, I've looked at MX-5's, MR2's, Beamer 3 series coupe's and they're all just too harsh on the insurance. I don't get it, I know people who have driven the same amount of time as me and are the same age who are buying RX-8's with over 200bhp.
Sorry for the rant and any advice would be much appreciated. Perhaps I need to stop looking at cars that 25 year olds would be able to afford and remember that I am only 19...
I think out of that list, the Mazda or the Leon would be my choice.
Both allow for a newer car/lower miler, than the premium those other manufacturers seem to hold.
The Mazda 3 Sport looks a really nice motor, I've been considering one of these myself for my 3rd car (currently 22 y.o)
ETA: Buy something from your above list, hold onto it for 2 years, putting you into the 21+ age bracket, with (hopefully) 4 years no claims, and then you can start to look for something more extravagant without paying the insurance providers ridiculous sums of money that can easily be better spent elsewhere.
Both allow for a newer car/lower miler, than the premium those other manufacturers seem to hold.
The Mazda 3 Sport looks a really nice motor, I've been considering one of these myself for my 3rd car (currently 22 y.o)
ETA: Buy something from your above list, hold onto it for 2 years, putting you into the 21+ age bracket, with (hopefully) 4 years no claims, and then you can start to look for something more extravagant without paying the insurance providers ridiculous sums of money that can easily be better spent elsewhere.
My friend just took out a £5,000 loan at 10%apr with Tesco's and bought a Clio 197 with it (he's 20) oddly similar situation! 
I wouldn't recommend that car if you're going to be doing a fair bit of M'way driving, it is a bit revvy in 6th.
I'd recommend compiling a list of cars you like then searching the PH classifieds for an example of each and noting its number plate. Then setup a quote on confused.com and work your way through the list of number plates noting down the policy prices. This will give you a list of insurance cars against your list which will help you decide which cars are plausible (this is what we did for my friend and the 197 looked the best value for money)
I wouldn't recommend that car if you're going to be doing a fair bit of M'way driving, it is a bit revvy in 6th.
I'd recommend compiling a list of cars you like then searching the PH classifieds for an example of each and noting its number plate. Then setup a quote on confused.com and work your way through the list of number plates noting down the policy prices. This will give you a list of insurance cars against your list which will help you decide which cars are plausible (this is what we did for my friend and the 197 looked the best value for money)
Of the small and fun cars I've been in and driven, the best were:
Panda 100HP. Simple fun, with enough power and 4WD.
C2 GT. Lightweight little Citroen, very nice rewarding gearbox and good in the bends.
MX-5. The old PH clichè, but it really is good fun.
I've never been in an Ignis Sport, but they're often recommended. I have been in a very rare and much unloved Daihatsu Sirion Rally 2. Powered by a 1.3 litre Toyota engine with more than 100BHP, weighing plenty less than a tonne, it was a proper laugh in an ugly little hatchback. Try finding one!
Panda 100HP. Simple fun, with enough power and 4WD.
C2 GT. Lightweight little Citroen, very nice rewarding gearbox and good in the bends.
MX-5. The old PH clichè, but it really is good fun.
I've never been in an Ignis Sport, but they're often recommended. I have been in a very rare and much unloved Daihatsu Sirion Rally 2. Powered by a 1.3 litre Toyota engine with more than 100BHP, weighing plenty less than a tonne, it was a proper laugh in an ugly little hatchback. Try finding one!
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C384390
How about taking the classic route, stand out from the crowd of your age a bit. £2850 Gets you a Brit classic like this.
Welcome by the way.
Does your dad have any influence on what you buy? By that I mean can you tell your dad to get with the times and accept that 99% of cars built in the last 20 years will easily manage 200,000 miles and beyond with mostly basic servicing!
If you ignore the silly rule that any car needs to have less than 60,000 miles in order to be a good purchase and chose wisely then there are some cracking cars which can be bought for £2,000 which you could insure and have great fun with.
I would certainly avoid getting yourself into a situation where you have a loan and are potentially at uni/college = part time work at best.
You need to try and think outside the box and choose cars not commonly owned by 19 year olds.
French hatches that aren't saxos eg Xsara VTR (same engine as 106GTI MUCH less to insure)
A Seat Ibiza GTI has Golf GTI running gear but is a fraction to insure.
A MG ZR appears to have low insurance ratings relative to it's performance
Older big barges, Mercedes 190s, 5 series BMWs, Jaguwaaaaas, Omegas and things like that are worth looking at to as there have been a few examples of 19-21 year olds insuring old V6/V8s for less than their peers pay on Saxo VTRs!
If you ignore the silly rule that any car needs to have less than 60,000 miles in order to be a good purchase and chose wisely then there are some cracking cars which can be bought for £2,000 which you could insure and have great fun with.
I would certainly avoid getting yourself into a situation where you have a loan and are potentially at uni/college = part time work at best.
You need to try and think outside the box and choose cars not commonly owned by 19 year olds.
French hatches that aren't saxos eg Xsara VTR (same engine as 106GTI MUCH less to insure)
A Seat Ibiza GTI has Golf GTI running gear but is a fraction to insure.
A MG ZR appears to have low insurance ratings relative to it's performance
Older big barges, Mercedes 190s, 5 series BMWs, Jaguwaaaaas, Omegas and things like that are worth looking at to as there have been a few examples of 19-21 year olds insuring old V6/V8s for less than their peers pay on Saxo VTRs!
Thanks for all the advice up to now guys, I'll keep hunting through some of the more obscure things and try and open up my mileage restrictions. My dad is with the times and he's not handholding me but I still appreciate his advice, he bought what appeared to be a solid A4 off his friend which had all the bells and whistles, full audi history, etc etc, had done just over 100k miles. Was told the same thing, "it'll run over 200k easily". Yea after 2 or 3 years of having it he was having to spend £500 a week just to keep it on the road and it had only done 130k. New things kept going wrong all over the place.
So although I appreciate that there is probably plenty of solid high mileage cars out there, I recognise that there is more risk involved and you also face the fact that when you come to sell it a car with 80k miles is much much appealing than 140k. He wasn't put off by A4's at all though and now he has an 07 plate which has under 50k miles on it and touch wood he hasn't had any issues in the year or so of having it. I know it's easy to get a car to 100k miles nowadays but still.. I don't think I'd like to go over 80k.
I thought about going down the classic route but I'm not the most hands on person and I don't think I'd be able to maintain it without frequent garage trips. Would you guys recommend steering clear of anything? I've looked at the 3 door astra's which seem to tick all the boxes but I always hear terrible things about Vauxhall. And then I don't think I've ever met anybody with a good thing to say about Renault and Citroen.
Thanks again for the help up to now
So although I appreciate that there is probably plenty of solid high mileage cars out there, I recognise that there is more risk involved and you also face the fact that when you come to sell it a car with 80k miles is much much appealing than 140k. He wasn't put off by A4's at all though and now he has an 07 plate which has under 50k miles on it and touch wood he hasn't had any issues in the year or so of having it. I know it's easy to get a car to 100k miles nowadays but still.. I don't think I'd like to go over 80k.
I thought about going down the classic route but I'm not the most hands on person and I don't think I'd be able to maintain it without frequent garage trips. Would you guys recommend steering clear of anything? I've looked at the 3 door astra's which seem to tick all the boxes but I always hear terrible things about Vauxhall. And then I don't think I've ever met anybody with a good thing to say about Renault and Citroen.
Thanks again for the help up to now
In true PH fashion I am probably ignoring some key points (mainly well built and reliability) but what about the Alfa GT, no idea what the insurance is like on them mind, get one for a few grand and have something that looks great but isn't likely to put you through a hedge, Failing that the cheaper choice of the GTV will offer some big draw backs when it comes to running costs against a golf but will almost certainly be cheaper to buy and looks much better which at 19 is pretty important( got rid of mine years ago when it blew up but don't remember the insurance being that bad)
Unless your dads giving you the cash, I would politely explain that your looking for something fun not sensible so while you appreciate his advice you will be trying something you want and that way he is free to say I told you so if (when) it goes bang and costs you lots of cash.
RX8s are silly cheap (no idea about insurance cost think its pretty high) and running it might not be the best but for a grand or two why not, so wouldn't get a loan if you don't need it as that way you can bin what ever you get without to much trouble, a 5k money pit might mean you paying lots to keep it on the road as well as on the loan.
Unless your dads giving you the cash, I would politely explain that your looking for something fun not sensible so while you appreciate his advice you will be trying something you want and that way he is free to say I told you so if (when) it goes bang and costs you lots of cash.
RX8s are silly cheap (no idea about insurance cost think its pretty high) and running it might not be the best but for a grand or two why not, so wouldn't get a loan if you don't need it as that way you can bin what ever you get without to much trouble, a 5k money pit might mean you paying lots to keep it on the road as well as on the loan.
Lanxx said:
Out of curiosity how much was your quote for the MX5? and what model were you looking at?
I haven't looked in a huge amount of detail at them but earlier I was looking at a 06 plate hard top, the 1.8i engine with 137bhp or something. Insurance was coming in at £1300-£1400+ providing I paid it off all in one go. The monthly rates were extortionate. I haven't looked at many of the olders ones as I'm not keen on like the early 2000's model because of the headlights and I don't really want to go through the hassle of finding a solid frogeyes one. I could probably get a cheaper insurance quote if I really hunted around. Has anybody tried those black box policies? I drive relatively sensibly and don't really go out late and stuff. I just don't want to feel restricted when the policies don't seem that much cheaper.
I'm in two minds here. I agree with the above that milage is basically a non-issue on pretty much all modern cars (perhaps French excepted - they do wear fast).
On the other hand, and with the benefit of hindsight, cars are only fun when they're not a burden and to that end I'd suggest making sure you buy from savings rather than a loan, if you really need to buy at all. Your education and career choice is the gateway to owning very nice cars and it's worth trying to engage your enthusiasm in that direction.
I went the barge route personally, and my first car was a very tidy and well specced Rover 620iSD which whilst undoubtedly uncool did have extremely comfy half leather seats, aircon, heated mirrors and 16" alloys which were quite big in it's day, and cost me less to insure and run than practically all of my peers in their little Fords and Vauxhall hatchbacks.
On the other hand, and with the benefit of hindsight, cars are only fun when they're not a burden and to that end I'd suggest making sure you buy from savings rather than a loan, if you really need to buy at all. Your education and career choice is the gateway to owning very nice cars and it's worth trying to engage your enthusiasm in that direction.
I went the barge route personally, and my first car was a very tidy and well specced Rover 620iSD which whilst undoubtedly uncool did have extremely comfy half leather seats, aircon, heated mirrors and 16" alloys which were quite big in it's day, and cost me less to insure and run than practically all of my peers in their little Fords and Vauxhall hatchbacks.
Grimezy93 said:
I haven't looked in a huge amount of detail at them but earlier I was looking at a 06 plate hard top, the 1.8i engine with 137bhp or something. Insurance was coming in at £1300-£1400+ providing I paid it off all in one go. The monthly rates were extortionate. I haven't looked at many of the olders ones as I'm not keen on like the early 2000's model because of the headlights and I don't really want to go through the hassle of finding a solid frogeyes one. I could probably get a cheaper insurance quote if I really hunted around.
Has anybody tried those black box policies? I drive relatively sensibly and don't really go out late and stuff. I just don't want to feel restricted when the policies don't seem that much cheaper.
I did my first 2 years with InsureTheBox. No complaints from me, I wasn't restricted in any way at all. If nobody told you who your insurer was, you wouldn't know you had a black box. Has anybody tried those black box policies? I drive relatively sensibly and don't really go out late and stuff. I just don't want to feel restricted when the policies don't seem that much cheaper.
They don't touch a lot of sporty cars though.
I'm 20 and pay £800 on a 2.4 170bhp fiat with 3 points and 1 years no claims.
Personally I wouldn't be looking at any of the cars you are, all very white goods, not exciting unless your going for the fast engine.
When I come to change my car I would be going fast barge, Volvo t5 Saab with a turbo, cheap to insure and faster than anything on your list. Most of which is the vag stable so Hardly the best to drive.
Personally I wouldn't be looking at any of the cars you are, all very white goods, not exciting unless your going for the fast engine.
When I come to change my car I would be going fast barge, Volvo t5 Saab with a turbo, cheap to insure and faster than anything on your list. Most of which is the vag stable so Hardly the best to drive.
okie592 said:
I'm 20 and pay £800 on a 2.4 170bhp fiat with 3 points and 1 years no claims.
Personally I wouldn't be looking at any of the cars you are, all very white goods, not exciting unless your going for the fast engine.
When I come to change my car I would be going fast barge, Volvo t5 Saab with a turbo, cheap to insure and faster than anything on your list. Most of which is the vag stable so Hardly the best to drive.
At this stage, anything has got to be more exciting to drive than my Punto though right?Personally I wouldn't be looking at any of the cars you are, all very white goods, not exciting unless your going for the fast engine.
When I come to change my car I would be going fast barge, Volvo t5 Saab with a turbo, cheap to insure and faster than anything on your list. Most of which is the vag stable so Hardly the best to drive.
Like reviews often say the lower petrol models need to be worked really hard to get up to speed, etc and they say the same about my Punto when actually I don't have any issues at all with it. I'd just like something a bit more sturdy and something that I'm a bit more proud of rather than what would win in a drag race.
I have tried a lot of these cars that people are suggesting that are a little bit more 'obscure' but I'm genuinely starting to think it's a myth that insurers work like that. If I look at something that's a little bit different that isn't standard for a 19 year old, it's still likely to be insurance group 15+.
I'd not worry about reviews personally, you'll only know from driving it, and really to an extent only know after owning it for a bit. I got pushed slightly in one direction and went along because reviews stated that the mk2 focus was the best thing since sliced bread. I loved my Mk1 so went and got one, I really didn't like it, might have been me, might have been that example but its the only car I've had that handled appreciably differently with a full tank of fuel. Sold it at a big loss because I just didn't enjoy driving it, however, I really like my Vectra B, yet all the reviews state its more average than beige and ditch water.
I couldn't find anything interesting and reasonable...recently when I changed my brother suggested his type R, and was genuine amazed when I proved to him that I would need to go to certain insurers to get insured at 27 with 4 years ncb (started late) and a IAM pass. The Lotus was pretty reasonable as a second car classic policy but the policy mandated that I owned and used another car as a daily.
Perhaps you could persuade your dad to halves on a second car that you could both enjoy, you could be a named driver on the policy and pay a contribution to your dad for the insurance whilst you run up the no claims on the punto?
I couldn't find anything interesting and reasonable...recently when I changed my brother suggested his type R, and was genuine amazed when I proved to him that I would need to go to certain insurers to get insured at 27 with 4 years ncb (started late) and a IAM pass. The Lotus was pretty reasonable as a second car classic policy but the policy mandated that I owned and used another car as a daily.
Perhaps you could persuade your dad to halves on a second car that you could both enjoy, you could be a named driver on the policy and pay a contribution to your dad for the insurance whilst you run up the no claims on the punto?
Oh no, I'm in danger of putting the sensible hat on....
With the bitter voice of experience I'm going to say don't get a car loan. basically you don't want the headache if uni etc is in the mix.
save up, build up some no claims get some thing "entertaining" after uni, debts are sorted etc.
staying on topic though, If it was me I'd look at a Fiesta 1.4 for around the 2 - 3k mark.
Insurance shouldn't be crippling and it won't take that long to save up.
With the bitter voice of experience I'm going to say don't get a car loan. basically you don't want the headache if uni etc is in the mix.
save up, build up some no claims get some thing "entertaining" after uni, debts are sorted etc.
staying on topic though, If it was me I'd look at a Fiesta 1.4 for around the 2 - 3k mark.
Insurance shouldn't be crippling and it won't take that long to save up.
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