MOT Advisories
Discussion
Hi. Need some good advice please.
In October 2012 I brought a used car and the garage gave me a new MOT certificate (that they had done themselves)with no advisories listed. They gave me a load of forms for the car and when I read them at home I found the previous MOT done in February of the same year by a different company. On it there were a load of advisories but I just thought that these must have been dealt with before the new MOT was done, hence none were listed on my MOT certificate. One of the advisories was 'Front brake pads wearing thin'.
I had to take the car back to the garage for them to sort out the air bag light that was on when I test drove the car. Before I went back the front light bulbs blew and I took the car to a local Ford garage to have them changed. The Ford garage does a 40 point check as standard and highlighted that the Front brake discs and pads were worn to excess. When I took the car back to the garage I showed them the form and they just laughed at it. However one mechanic said he would check the brakes and the next thing he is telling me that he has immediately changed all the front discs and pads. He also says that he has changed the oil and filter ( an oil leak was mentioned on the Feb MOT). Interestingly they didnt charge me!
I firmly believe that when (and if) the car was MOTed by this company the worn brakes would have been present and should have been dealt with or listed as an advisory. By the way the mechanic acted I also dont believe that this car was serviced before being given to me even though they said it was.
So my questions are 'Should they have listed these thing on the MOT or are they within their rights to ignore previous MOT advisories. Also does this mean that they falsified the MOT certificate and deceive me, as if Ford had not done the checks I would never have known about the brakes until maybe an accident had occurred? I had only had the car for 4 months when the bad brakes were discovered and I only drive to and from work and locally where I live....Not a heavy footed motorway driver! Look forward to hearing your thoughts. Thanks.
In October 2012 I brought a used car and the garage gave me a new MOT certificate (that they had done themselves)with no advisories listed. They gave me a load of forms for the car and when I read them at home I found the previous MOT done in February of the same year by a different company. On it there were a load of advisories but I just thought that these must have been dealt with before the new MOT was done, hence none were listed on my MOT certificate. One of the advisories was 'Front brake pads wearing thin'.
I had to take the car back to the garage for them to sort out the air bag light that was on when I test drove the car. Before I went back the front light bulbs blew and I took the car to a local Ford garage to have them changed. The Ford garage does a 40 point check as standard and highlighted that the Front brake discs and pads were worn to excess. When I took the car back to the garage I showed them the form and they just laughed at it. However one mechanic said he would check the brakes and the next thing he is telling me that he has immediately changed all the front discs and pads. He also says that he has changed the oil and filter ( an oil leak was mentioned on the Feb MOT). Interestingly they didnt charge me!
I firmly believe that when (and if) the car was MOTed by this company the worn brakes would have been present and should have been dealt with or listed as an advisory. By the way the mechanic acted I also dont believe that this car was serviced before being given to me even though they said it was.
So my questions are 'Should they have listed these thing on the MOT or are they within their rights to ignore previous MOT advisories. Also does this mean that they falsified the MOT certificate and deceive me, as if Ford had not done the checks I would never have known about the brakes until maybe an accident had occurred? I had only had the car for 4 months when the bad brakes were discovered and I only drive to and from work and locally where I live....Not a heavy footed motorway driver! Look forward to hearing your thoughts. Thanks.
Edited by Dawn12 on Tuesday 4th June 21:19
Without actually seeing the worn discs and pads it would be impossible to say whether they should have been advised or failed on the last mot. However to answer some of your questions, the mot tester would not have access to the previous advisories unless he had the old advisory sheet in front of him. Also advisory items are the opinion of the tester so they could have been unknown or ignored. Theres actually no requirement to put any advisories.
I wouldnt take too much notice of the 40 point check, theres a lot of cases where items are listed to try and drum up business for the garage concerned.
What can you do? Actually not much, you cant dispute the mot with vosa now because the brakes have been replaced. You could argue with the garage but if they have replaced the brakes and serviced it for free, then I doubt you'd get much more out of them.
I wouldnt take too much notice of the 40 point check, theres a lot of cases where items are listed to try and drum up business for the garage concerned.
What can you do? Actually not much, you cant dispute the mot with vosa now because the brakes have been replaced. You could argue with the garage but if they have replaced the brakes and serviced it for free, then I doubt you'd get much more out of them.
A tester is not obligated to issue advisories, they're usually done out of courtesy and to cover himself in the event of a dispute. What matters is that the part tested met the minimum requirement at the time of test.
Brakes are not always easy to assess and even if it was noted that the friction material was at 3mm, why advise?, as they're twice the minimum allowable thickness. Discs have a test standard which is way lower than would be acceptable on a service. On the other hand a garage with a vested interest of earning money from a repair will tell you that they are X% worn and need replacing straight away.
As the driver of the car, it's your responsibility to ensure that it's kept in a roadworthy condition, it's not the MOT testers job to advise what may need repairing in the future after a test pass.
Brakes are not always easy to assess and even if it was noted that the friction material was at 3mm, why advise?, as they're twice the minimum allowable thickness. Discs have a test standard which is way lower than would be acceptable on a service. On the other hand a garage with a vested interest of earning money from a repair will tell you that they are X% worn and need replacing straight away.
As the driver of the car, it's your responsibility to ensure that it's kept in a roadworthy condition, it's not the MOT testers job to advise what may need repairing in the future after a test pass.
PhilTD5 said:
Without actually seeing the worn discs and pads it would be impossible to say whether they should have been advised or failed on the last mot. However to answer some of your questions, the mot tester would not have access to the previous advisories unless he had the old advisory sheet in front of him. Also advisory items are the opinion of the tester so they could have been unknown or ignored. Theres actually no requirement to put any advisories.
I wouldnt take too much notice of the 40 point check, theres a lot of cases where items are listed to try and drum up business for the garage concerned.
What can you do? Actually not much, you cant dispute the mot with vosa now because the brakes have been replaced. You could argue with the garage but if they have replaced the brakes and serviced it for free, then I doubt you'd get much more out of them.
Really? You can check the MOT history for any car back to 2005 online. Surely MOT testers have access to this information?I wouldnt take too much notice of the 40 point check, theres a lot of cases where items are listed to try and drum up business for the garage concerned.
What can you do? Actually not much, you cant dispute the mot with vosa now because the brakes have been replaced. You could argue with the garage but if they have replaced the brakes and serviced it for free, then I doubt you'd get much more out of them.
If the pads were really that worn you'd have known about it as they'd have been making an awful grinding noise, a wear indicator noise or a wear light would have been on the dash (if the car has one).
Discs and Pads have to meet a minimum thickness for the MOT and obviously the brakes have to meet a minimum performance level and also pass a balance test, grinding/binding etc. Advisories are just "best practice" and known as arse coverers to some MOT testers and business development plans to others.
It is easy to identify whether new discs have been fitted.
With them replaced it is all conjecture now anyway. Quite how worn they were you will never know, but if the same garage who did the 40-point check replaced them, then it was in their interests to find something to do on the check.
Discs and Pads have to meet a minimum thickness for the MOT and obviously the brakes have to meet a minimum performance level and also pass a balance test, grinding/binding etc. Advisories are just "best practice" and known as arse coverers to some MOT testers and business development plans to others.
It is easy to identify whether new discs have been fitted.
With them replaced it is all conjecture now anyway. Quite how worn they were you will never know, but if the same garage who did the 40-point check replaced them, then it was in their interests to find something to do on the check.
Dawn12 said:
The Ford garage does a 40 point check as standard and highlighted that the Front brake discs and pads were worn to excess.
The purpose of those tests is to find opporunities to charge you money for stuff. Brake disks worn is a real popular one because its a dead easy job and can justify a big tag. The question I'd be asking is how worn are they, and what's the manufacturers recommended min thickness. They try it on a lot, for instance 23mm discs worn to 22mm and recomended change, when the min thickness is 21.plasticpig said:
Really? You can check the MOT history for any car back to 2005 online. Surely MOT testers have access to this information?
No we don't have access to this. As for advisorys it's down to the discretion of the tester to advise, I don't bother unless something it pretty well f
ked. As for discs and pads as long as the performance is within the limits and they pretty much not metal to metal it's a pass.plasticpig said:
Really? You can check the MOT history for any car back to 2005 online. Surely MOT testers have access to this information?
They can access it if they have the old MOT like anyone else, but are meant to judge the car on their own opinion at the time it is presented not someone else's from a year or more ago. Guidelines for advisories are vague in many areas so one thing a tester might think is worth an advisory another will dismiss as being pedantic and not advise anyway.In mosr areas they are generally best ignored - it is amazing how many cars magically repair themselves year to year with no other intervention!
The Mot own system doesnt give anything away about the cars history when you log a car on for a test, it could have failed at another garage ten minutes ago and you wouldnt know.
I know that you could go online and check it, but if you had to do it for every test all day? Plus you would need the old certificate for the relevent numbers!
I know that you could go online and check it, but if you had to do it for every test all day? Plus you would need the old certificate for the relevent numbers!
One of the things thats stuck in my mind when I did the mot NT course was how vosa explain just how worthless an mot is. It is a moment in time not a guide for the next 12 months. Do not think like a mechanic carrying out a service (will it last till next service) If it passes the minimum requirement at the time it was tested, then it has passed.
The minimum standards also keep changing, I stopped testing about 3 years ago, but remember the brake disc rules changing. Bet theres been a few more changes since then!
The minimum standards also keep changing, I stopped testing about 3 years ago, but remember the brake disc rules changing. Bet theres been a few more changes since then!
An advisory is simply that. It can still be an advisory on the next MOT. the only question is whether it all works and is roadworthy and the MOT says it was. There is no onus to replace things that are still serviceable. Brake pads might be an advisory if, for example, the garage knew the customer did a lot of miles but might not be if it was a low miler.
Same goes for oil leaks and so forth - it depends who did the MOT. I asked my garage to check when my MOT expired on my Fiesta and they did not have access to the information without the previous MOT or the logbook number. I imagine most dealers just farm out MOTs and accept what comes back. Some stock may have expired MOTs when sold and they send it off for a new one. Assuming work is fed their way, I am sure the MOT test centre will not list advisories they don't need to, if you see what I mean.
Same goes for oil leaks and so forth - it depends who did the MOT. I asked my garage to check when my MOT expired on my Fiesta and they did not have access to the information without the previous MOT or the logbook number. I imagine most dealers just farm out MOTs and accept what comes back. Some stock may have expired MOTs when sold and they send it off for a new one. Assuming work is fed their way, I am sure the MOT test centre will not list advisories they don't need to, if you see what I mean.
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