LPG a Subaru boxer engine
Discussion
Hi all
I'm currently on the search for a new daily driver, and alongside the boring Honda Accord and a weird fettish for a v6 Insignia the Subaru Forrester 2.5 XTE has popped onto my radar.
Given the number of miles I cover each year (30k+), I'm considering LPG. Now, I've seen that Subaru now offer it as a factory option, but I've also read lots of internet scare-mongery about how it happens to destroy valves on this engine. The dealer-fit one could also include stronger valves of course, so, I thought i'd throw it out to PH's.
Anyone got one? Any converter out there? Whats the deal, a well trodden path or the road to ruin?
I'm currently on the search for a new daily driver, and alongside the boring Honda Accord and a weird fettish for a v6 Insignia the Subaru Forrester 2.5 XTE has popped onto my radar.
Given the number of miles I cover each year (30k+), I'm considering LPG. Now, I've seen that Subaru now offer it as a factory option, but I've also read lots of internet scare-mongery about how it happens to destroy valves on this engine. The dealer-fit one could also include stronger valves of course, so, I thought i'd throw it out to PH's.
Anyone got one? Any converter out there? Whats the deal, a well trodden path or the road to ruin?
I have a 2004 WRX with LPG. It was converted by the previous owner on a freshly rebuilt engine (and sold to me shortly after), I think it was done at ~82k, I'm on 116k now and all seems to be ok. It has a "Flashlube" valve saver kit and the LPG kit (Romano N) meters a reasonable amount of petrol in under demand so the guy reckoned the valves would be fine. The fuel savings would easily pay for replacement anyway if it did occur!
The conversion was by www.mintlpg.co.uk and done as part of a training course by the previous owner. I can supply the ECU file if anybody is interested, although obviously it will need to be tuned for different models.
The conversion was by www.mintlpg.co.uk and done as part of a training course by the previous owner. I can supply the ECU file if anybody is interested, although obviously it will need to be tuned for different models.
Edited by Gareth79 on Thursday 22 August 21:07
Quite a high percentage are converted compared to other marques, it appears to me.
Try here, perhaps: http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/index.php
Try here, perhaps: http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/index.php
I inherited a Mk. 4 Ford Fiesta with 26,000 on the clock back in 2005.
As my daily commute was 200 miles at the time
I decided to press it into service as a cheap to run commuter, and to make it even better, had it converted to LPG.
The installer fitted one of those Flashlube kits - and when I collected the car, and questioned it, he told me with a grave face that 'oh yes, you definitely need this - especially on this old-style Kent engine, otherwise the valves and seat will die a death very quickly.
The first moment came when I went to buy some more of the lube stuff which seemed to be disappearing at a frightening rate, despite me keep fiddling with the rather crappy delivery metering system. The price of 5 litres of this stuff was over 50 quid!!!
Anyway, the unit kept buggering me about - kinda like getting the controls on a shower at home spot-on, it seemed that whatever I did to it, it either stopped delivering any lube at all, or poured it in at a huge rate.
In the end, I just tore the whole system off the car and binned it, taking my chances on the engine being ok. I figured that as it was such a cheap to repair, common motor that if it died, I would just buy another from a scrappy for a ton and swap it over.
The car went from 26,000 miles to 160,000 miles, running on LPG without flashlube, and never skipped a beat. Over that mileage, when I did services and checked the valve clearances, there were maybe 2 or 3 occasions when I had to open the gaps a bit, so maybe there was a tiny bit of VSR.
But it was still going strong with all it's (tiny!) original engine power still available when I sold it on.
So I am not convinced you need a flashlube system on LPG...
Out of interest, over the mileage / ownership period, I calculated the fuel saving at just over £8,000...so minus the cost of the installation at £1,500 - that meant a net saving of £6,500 by having it converted to LPG.
A good deal I thought.
As my daily commute was 200 miles at the time
I decided to press it into service as a cheap to run commuter, and to make it even better, had it converted to LPG.The installer fitted one of those Flashlube kits - and when I collected the car, and questioned it, he told me with a grave face that 'oh yes, you definitely need this - especially on this old-style Kent engine, otherwise the valves and seat will die a death very quickly.
The first
moment came when I went to buy some more of the lube stuff which seemed to be disappearing at a frightening rate, despite me keep fiddling with the rather crappy delivery metering system. The price of 5 litres of this stuff was over 50 quid!!!Anyway, the unit kept buggering me about - kinda like getting the controls on a shower at home spot-on, it seemed that whatever I did to it, it either stopped delivering any lube at all, or poured it in at a huge rate.
In the end, I just tore the whole system off the car and binned it, taking my chances on the engine being ok. I figured that as it was such a cheap to repair, common motor that if it died, I would just buy another from a scrappy for a ton and swap it over.
The car went from 26,000 miles to 160,000 miles, running on LPG without flashlube, and never skipped a beat. Over that mileage, when I did services and checked the valve clearances, there were maybe 2 or 3 occasions when I had to open the gaps a bit, so maybe there was a tiny bit of VSR.
But it was still going strong with all it's (tiny!) original engine power still available when I sold it on.
So I am not convinced you need a flashlube system on LPG...
Out of interest, over the mileage / ownership period, I calculated the fuel saving at just over £8,000...so minus the cost of the installation at £1,500 - that meant a net saving of £6,500 by having it converted to LPG.
A good deal I thought.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
I inherited a Mk. 4 Ford Fiesta with 26,000 on the clock back in 2005.
As my daily commute was 200 miles at the time I decided to press it into service as a cheap to run commuter, and to make it even better, had it converted to LPG.
The installer fitted one of those Flashlube kits - and when I collected the car, and questioned it, he told me with a grave face that 'oh yes, you definitely need this - especially on this old-style Kent engine, otherwise the valves and seat will die a death very quickly.
The first moment came when I went to buy some more of the lube stuff which seemed to be disappearing at a frightening rate, despite me keep fiddling with the rather crappy delivery metering system. The price of 5 litres of this stuff was over 50 quid!!!
Anyway, the unit kept buggering me about - kinda like getting the controls on a shower at home spot-on, it seemed that whatever I did to it, it either stopped delivering any lube at all, or poured it in at a huge rate.
In the end, I just tore the whole system off the car and binned it, taking my chances on the engine being ok. I figured that as it was such a cheap to repair, common motor that if it died, I would just buy another from a scrappy for a ton and swap it over.
The car went from 26,000 miles to 160,000 miles, running on LPG without flashlube, and never skipped a beat. Over that mileage, when I did services and checked the valve clearances, there were maybe 2 or 3 occasions when I had to open the gaps a bit, so maybe there was a tiny bit of VSR.
But it was still going strong with all it's (tiny!) original engine power still available when I sold it on.
So I am not convinced you need a flashlube system on LPG...
Out of interest, over the mileage / ownership period, I calculated the fuel saving at just over £8,000...so minus the cost of the installation at £1,500 - that meant a net saving of £6,500 by having it converted to LPG.
A good deal I thought.
Thanks for the post, very interesting indeed. I think flashlube is pretty much defacto now on LPG systems! 2005 was about the early stages of multi-point LPG, wasn't it?As my daily commute was 200 miles at the time
I decided to press it into service as a cheap to run commuter, and to make it even better, had it converted to LPG.The installer fitted one of those Flashlube kits - and when I collected the car, and questioned it, he told me with a grave face that 'oh yes, you definitely need this - especially on this old-style Kent engine, otherwise the valves and seat will die a death very quickly.
The first
moment came when I went to buy some more of the lube stuff which seemed to be disappearing at a frightening rate, despite me keep fiddling with the rather crappy delivery metering system. The price of 5 litres of this stuff was over 50 quid!!!Anyway, the unit kept buggering me about - kinda like getting the controls on a shower at home spot-on, it seemed that whatever I did to it, it either stopped delivering any lube at all, or poured it in at a huge rate.
In the end, I just tore the whole system off the car and binned it, taking my chances on the engine being ok. I figured that as it was such a cheap to repair, common motor that if it died, I would just buy another from a scrappy for a ton and swap it over.
The car went from 26,000 miles to 160,000 miles, running on LPG without flashlube, and never skipped a beat. Over that mileage, when I did services and checked the valve clearances, there were maybe 2 or 3 occasions when I had to open the gaps a bit, so maybe there was a tiny bit of VSR.
But it was still going strong with all it's (tiny!) original engine power still available when I sold it on.
So I am not convinced you need a flashlube system on LPG...
Out of interest, over the mileage / ownership period, I calculated the fuel saving at just over £8,000...so minus the cost of the installation at £1,500 - that meant a net saving of £6,500 by having it converted to LPG.
A good deal I thought.
eltax91 said:
Thanks for the post, very interesting indeed. I think flashlube is pretty much defacto now on LPG systems! 2005 was about the early stages of multi-point LPG, wasn't it?
Worth a read http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/VSR.htmlI had my 2006 2.5L WRX converted to LPG. I've posted about it before, I will try and dig some links out for you.
ETA that was easier to find that I thought it would be http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=921...
The Impreza purists will hate you for doing it. whenever I took mine to my local independent they would say it's not a proper Impreza anymore and I'd ruined it.
ETA that was easier to find that I thought it would be http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=921...
The Impreza purists will hate you for doing it. whenever I took mine to my local independent they would say it's not a proper Impreza anymore and I'd ruined it.
Edited by Bungleaio on Friday 23 August 13:10
Bungleaio said:
The Impreza purists will hate you for doing it. whenever I took mine to my local independent they would say it's not a proper Impreza anymore and I'd ruined it.
How odd. It makes no difference what fuel the car is running on if the LPG conversion and kit are high quality. Edited by Bungleaio on Friday 23 August 13:10
I think I'd have told them that as it wasn't a proper Subaru any more they obviously won't be wanting my business any more.
Sorry, the garage were fine, it was all the fanboys that would turn up in their tuned up Imprezas that would say it wasn't a proper Impreza.
When I asked about how they used their cars, they said they do the odd track day and drove it a few miles at the weekends. The one with the most horsepower and biggest mouth, admitted his was a bit of a handful on the roads and used a £500 Ford Ka most of the time. I was doing 300 miles per week in my Impreza.
When I asked about how they used their cars, they said they do the odd track day and drove it a few miles at the weekends. The one with the most horsepower and biggest mouth, admitted his was a bit of a handful on the roads and used a £500 Ford Ka most of the time. I was doing 300 miles per week in my Impreza.
Am about to chop in my Outback diesel (a friend's experience of having to buy a new diesel engine for his legacy has made me paranoid) for a 3.0 Outback and am considering LPG conversion - local Subaru specialist does them.
Can anyone comment on approximate MPG when running on LPG? I know I would only manage to run on LPG some of the time (not that many LPG filling stations near where I live / work) and have read that LPG MPG drops by 20%-25% from standard
Can anyone comment on approximate MPG when running on LPG? I know I would only manage to run on LPG some of the time (not that many LPG filling stations near where I live / work) and have read that LPG MPG drops by 20%-25% from standard
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