A harsh ride: PH Blog
XFR-S too firm says PH review - not so says Jaguar and off to Gaydon we go

Jaguar begged to differ and requested our attendance at Gaydon to spend some time with Mike Cross in an XFR-S. No chore - Mike is always fascinating company and this was a friendly invitation rather than a gun to the head.
Mike and I have discussed the 'science of flow' thing before, his job basically being the articulation of subjective ride and handling nuances into hard data for the engineers. Tools for the job? A nicely sinister looking XFR-S in dark grey with the optional small wing, an XJR and a couple of hours to kill on the Gaydon test track.
In terms of differences over the XFR Mike asserts that the damper hardware and anti-roll bars are identical. The steel springs are up 37.5 per cent front and 40 per cent rear and the tyres are 10mm wider 265/295 front/rear over the XFR's with both cars running 20-inch wheels as standard.
Jaguar's high speed test track uses a section of the old V-bomber runway and speeds into the 170s are easily achieved, subsidence and other natural lumps and bumps meaning the wide, fast corners have plenty of unsettling surprises including a vicious dip at the entry to the 120mph left-hander at the bottom. Which the R-S falls four-square into and damps the return stroke without a quiver. In Mike's view we can tolerate a fair amount of vertical movement - sufficiently damped of course - but it's the porpoising into dips that really unsettles both car and driver.
High speed stability is one thing but here in the UK we're more likely to be driving at sub-60mph speeds on broken, bumpy roads not 150mph-plus on smooth Autobahn.
A tighter handling circuit with vicious bumps, potholes, simulated frost damage, harsh transverse ridges and 'noisy' tarmac is probably more representative and here a sense of Nat's issue with the ride does show. This is an exaggerated test surface but the fat tyres do steamroller over it, harsher bumps thump through and there's a definite jiggle factor most Jags smother.
But it's not brittle, the initial damper movement is smooth and even with the firmer springs you can feel full travel of the suspension being used. The XFR-S is not a light car but these violent weight transfers feel well contained. Simplistically it feels 'firm' but controlled.
We do the same in Dynamic mode, which basically narrows the window of the dampers and raises the lower threshold of the operating range. Now it really does feel pretty harsh, but that's the purpose of this test track. Then an interesting thing on a rapid-fire series of transverse bumps. And here the fore-aft damping keeps the car flat, despite the pile-driver impacts and rapid undulations. If you've ever ridden off-road on two wheels think of it as the difference between the nodding donkey sensation of rolling through a dip versus raising the front wheel, keeping your body level and 'pumping' through the compression - see here for an explanation!
When we switch to the more softly sprung and damped XJR it actually feels more unsettled through this same section, demonstrating 'firmer' doesn't always equate to 'less comfortable'. The XJR also feels like it's rolling onto its outside tyre walls on a high-speed right the XFR-S barely flinches at. In Dynamic mode the XJR feels a lot better. But does hitting the button actually raise the cornering limits?
Mike answers thoughtfully, saying in a steady state no it doesn't. Nor does it affect the amount of roll under load, though it does change the speed of its onset and the transient behaviour on turn-in can be played with via the software and sensors. From the wheel that might mean a temporary firming of the rear dampers for a 'sharper' turn-in, something I could feel even from the passenger seat of the XJR.
Of course, we're talking 550hp mega saloons here. And if you wanted to transport that apocryphal box of eggs across a ploughed field - or around Jaguar's test track - and not end up with them ready scrambled you'd still use a 2CV, not an XFR-S.
Dan
[Sources: MPORA]
Sorted.
And, no, no XJR-S as far as I'm aware of. We were in the XJR on the runway and I was about to comment there was quite a lot of wind noise and then I saw we were doing 175mph, which it reached with absolutely no difficulty whatsoever.

Dan
That would have been a direct comparison, as it stands you're comparing 2 totally different cars. Of course the XJR is going to feel different over a mid corner bump- it has a different wheel base, mass, mass distribution, alu vs steel construction etc etc

Dan
Currently he's got an XJ Supersport with a measly 510hp
.Also good to know you survived the firing squad at Jaguar!
That would have been a direct comparison, as it stands you're comparing 2 totally different cars. Of course the XJR is going to feel different over a mid corner bump- it has a different wheel base, mass, mass distribution, alu vs steel construction etc etc

Cheers,
Dan
Currently he's got an XJ Supersport with a measly 510hp
.Following Dale round the 'ring and watching the XJ Supersports cornering on three wheels was impressive to say the least too.
Cheers,
Dan
Or are these two issues reasonably well intertwined and can only be resolved with the help of an engineering guru by your side, a day of hooning in someone else's car and a free lunch?
Where do I sign?
It doesnt really do anything other than explain why the initial test was correct...
As stated, perhaps the day in Jag super saloons and a free lunch may have had something to do with it

Also, Jag have gone done slightly in my perceptions by trying to force their view of ride comfort on customers rather than the other wa around...essentially bullying journalists into changing an opinion...or certainly trying to!

Don't see anything wrong with giving Jaguar right of reply and a chance for us to explore a particular issue in more detail/with greater insight either.
There are subjective elements to ride too. And it was interesting that Mike reckons a lot of what hacks harp on about doesn't necessarily tally with what customers actually want. It's the flipside of this argument but he said comfort is a much bigger priority for most Jag customers than 'sportiness' but in this instance with the XFR already there they had some headroom to go a bit more extreme. That may or may not be to all tastes. But the regular R is still there of course.
Cheers,
Dan
It doesnt really do anything other than explain why the initial test was correct...
As stated, perhaps the day in Jag super saloons and a free lunch may have had something to do with it

Also, Jag have gone done slightly in my perceptions by trying to force their view of ride comfort on customers rather than the other wa around...essentially bullying journalists into changing an opinion...or certainly trying to!
It doesnt really do anything other than explain why the initial test was correct...
As stated, perhaps the day in Jag super saloons and a free lunch may have had something to do with it

Also, Jag have gone done slightly in my perceptions by trying to force their view of ride comfort on customers rather than the other wa around...essentially bullying journalists into changing an opinion...or certainly trying to!
What matters, and what they haven't gone into, is any objective measurement of ride and bump-thump versus competitors' cars. What's a market-acceptable ride for a luxobarge on steroids is only meaningfully measured in comparison with competitors. If Jag had brought along an AMG E-Class and an M5 and shown how the XFR-S ride beats their ride, on a range of real-life roads at real-life speeds, then I would be impressed. But in doing it without the competition, on their selected test surfaces, driving at Mike Cross speeds, they have completely failed to make a meaningful point.
It is no surprise that a car can be made to look good on the test circuit that you've developed it on, if you're the factory test driver. Those are the absolutely optimum conditions for making it look as good as it can look. But buyers of these cars don't use them to lap Gaydon.
It doesnt really do anything other than explain why the initial test was correct...
As stated, perhaps the day in Jag super saloons and a free lunch may have had something to do with it

Also, Jag have gone done slightly in my perceptions by trying to force their view of ride comfort on customers rather than the other wa around...essentially bullying journalists into changing an opinion...or certainly trying to!

It doesnt really do anything other than explain why the initial test was correct...
As stated, perhaps the day in Jag super saloons and a free lunch may have had something to do with it

Also, Jag have gone done slightly in my perceptions by trying to force their view of ride comfort on customers rather than the other wa around...essentially bullying journalists into changing an opinion...or certainly trying to!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff






