Would any of the 80's/90's supercars on modern rubber...
Discussion
...be any match for any of the current track monsters, such as the GT-R, GT3, MP4-12C, 458 etc?
Would an XJ220 be able to hold its own against a 4WD turbo equivalent such as the GT-R?
Would an F40/F50 on modern tyres keep up with a 458 considering its weight advantage?
Or a McLaren F1 against the MP4?
Or a Porsche 959 against the GT-R?
Let's assume the driver is highly skilled and the track offers an equal mix of corners and straights. Pure top trumps day dreaming so anyone who wants to moan can go...play top trumps.
Would an XJ220 be able to hold its own against a 4WD turbo equivalent such as the GT-R?
Would an F40/F50 on modern tyres keep up with a 458 considering its weight advantage?
Or a McLaren F1 against the MP4?
Or a Porsche 959 against the GT-R?
Let's assume the driver is highly skilled and the track offers an equal mix of corners and straights. Pure top trumps day dreaming so anyone who wants to moan can go...play top trumps.
I think the modern equivalents would still spank the older cars.
You're right that there's generally more weight to carry around, but IMO this is more than made up for by advanges in other areas, like power, brakes, aero, active aero, suspension, active suspension, active diffs/torque vectoring.
The older beasts were beasts of their time, and in some respects will still offer a more 'pure' driving experience due to their greater simplicity. But if you're talking about lap times, then the modern cars will rule the day IMO.
You're right that there's generally more weight to carry around, but IMO this is more than made up for by advanges in other areas, like power, brakes, aero, active aero, suspension, active suspension, active diffs/torque vectoring.
The older beasts were beasts of their time, and in some respects will still offer a more 'pure' driving experience due to their greater simplicity. But if you're talking about lap times, then the modern cars will rule the day IMO.
Disco You said:
Are you asking if the only advancement in technology over the past three decades is in tyre technology?
No.
Maybe it's better if I phrase it thus...No.
I'm asking would the lightness and superior power to weight ratio of earlier cars on modern tyres be a match for modern cars with their extra weight and technological advancements, on those same modern tyres.
In short, how can a front engined 4WD 540hp 1800kg GT-R absolutely destroy a mid engined 540hp 1400kg XJ220, given the XJ220's superiority in so many areas, using the same modern tyres??
daveco said:
Disco You said:
Are you asking if the only advancement in technology over the past three decades is in tyre technology?
No.
Maybe it's better if I phrase it thus...No.
I'm asking would the lightness and superior power to weight ratio of earlier cars on modern tyres be a match for modern cars with their extra weight and technological advancements, on those same modern tyres.
In short, how can a front engined 4WD 540hp 1800kg GT-R absolutely destroy a mid engined 540hp 1400kg XJ220, given the XJ220's superiority in so many areas, using the same modern tyres??
certainly a reasonable thing to wonder.
In the case of xj220 vs gt-r, while they may have similar power they won't necessarily have the same acceleration. For starters, the electronic mapping of the gt-r is undoubtedly aeons ahead.
Tyres are a leveller, yes, but there are many other factors.
Personally i wonder how stuff like a 60s F1 car would match up against something like a gp2 car.
In the case of xj220 vs gt-r, while they may have similar power they won't necessarily have the same acceleration. For starters, the electronic mapping of the gt-r is undoubtedly aeons ahead.
Tyres are a leveller, yes, but there are many other factors.
Personally i wonder how stuff like a 60s F1 car would match up against something like a gp2 car.
longblackcoat said:
daveco said:
Disco You said:
Are you asking if the only advancement in technology over the past three decades is in tyre technology?
No.
Maybe it's better if I phrase it thus...No.
I'm asking would the lightness and superior power to weight ratio of earlier cars on modern tyres be a match for modern cars with their extra weight and technological advancements, on those same modern tyres.
In short, how can a front engined 4WD 540hp 1800kg GT-R absolutely destroy a mid engined 540hp 1400kg XJ220, given the XJ220's superiority in so many areas, using the same modern tyres??
Surely, if you have one of these 80s/90s monsters you would now be running it on modern tyres anyway? For example I know that Goodyear no longer makes the special Eagle F1 tyre which it developed for the Lotus Carlton. They still make an Eagle F1 that would fit, but it's a completely new asymetric design.
LotusOmega375D said:
Surely, if you have one of these 80s/90s monsters you would now be running it on modern tyres anyway? For example I know that Goodyear no longer makes the special Eagle F1 tyre which it developed for the Lotus Carlton. They still make an Eagle F1 that would fit, but it's a completely new asymetric design.
It would be great to see old vs new. It was an old EVO mag that compared the XJ220 against a Murcielago LP670-there was nothing between them in a drag race so the idea of more of these comparisons intrigued me.Rovinghawk said:
mrmr96 said:
Lightness and power to weight ratio are different things.
One is a direct consequence of the other.more power from the same car = better power to weight,
less weight with the same powertrain = better power to weight
less weight with less power and vice versa = better power to weight as long as power reduces proportionately less than weight. and vice versa.
anyway back on topic, comparing an XJ220 with a GTR is a bit chalk and cheese. the GT-R is an anomaly super car performance from a non supercar.
To be fair you'd have to compare XJ220 with LPxxx, Ferrari, Maclaren or similar.
it'd be interesting to see a comparison with driver aids switched off.
I've often wondered this. I was on this forum where a group of Americans claimed that a car with greater 'lateral G' performance was always the more superior, ie. Corvette Z06 vs McLaren F1 (yes, I genuinely think that was the comparison) and I argued that it had to have a lot to do with tyre technology, surely?
An XJ220 / GTR comparison is a bit much, since the GTR is a significantly different car. But an XJ220 vs something of similar layout and power to weight would be an interesting comparison to make.
An XJ220 / GTR comparison is a bit much, since the GTR is a significantly different car. But an XJ220 vs something of similar layout and power to weight would be an interesting comparison to make.
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