Merc vs BMW vs Audi vs Lexus - Best Engineered car?
Discussion
Whilst developing a car a senior Jaguar engineer was asked this question, he said Lexus by a country mile.
In Telford there is a company that manufactures seat component's for most cars on the road, I cant remember the name of it but a mate of mine worked there, he said the quality control was exactly the same for all makes except Toyota, theirs were a lot more stringent.
In Telford there is a company that manufactures seat component's for most cars on the road, I cant remember the name of it but a mate of mine worked there, he said the quality control was exactly the same for all makes except Toyota, theirs were a lot more stringent.
Edited by Rumple on Saturday 31st August 22:02
Lexus although they look a bit weird and still quite jap
Audi best interiors and best looking cars when speced right. Screwed together beautifully and some of the tech is astonishong
BMW same as Audi just not as good looking
Merc - they just don't seem to be screwed together all that great, the windscreen wipers pivot like the mk2 clio, not acceptable on a 50k car
Audi best interiors and best looking cars when speced right. Screwed together beautifully and some of the tech is astonishong
BMW same as Audi just not as good looking
Merc - they just don't seem to be screwed together all that great, the windscreen wipers pivot like the mk2 clio, not acceptable on a 50k car
Having owned all three german marques on the same level of car (C-class 220d, bmw 320d x3, audi A4 2litre D) I have found the following:
Mercedes:
Surprisingly poor quality compared to the others in this market sector. The engine noise is awful in the cabin and the controls are neither slick, nor intuitive. (god awful handbrake thing, control storks, 1990s entertainment screen) I also found the materials cheap, the seats uncomfortable and the steering wheel feedback non-existent). I've also driven a fair few e-classes (coupes and estates) and I still find them desperately lacking. I'm sure further up the price band things become better, but i worry that all we think about is the 6.3 and everything else is a compromise, leading them to be a bit of a one trick pony.
All badge and no engineering in my eyes.
Audi:
Feels similar to the merc in terms of driving experience. BUT with many of the bits n pieces better thought out. It feels how I expected the merc would feel. Steering felt better, the entertainment system was reasonably slick, LOTS of buttons - to the point of information overload.
These are good quality cars, but nothing particularly inspiring. If you prefer gadgets over actually driving, i'd recommend the audi.
Interestingly, having lived in germany for a few years now, it's generally believed that Audi is a higher quality brand than Mercedes - which i think is a bit different in the uk.
BMW:
Try as I might, I have to use the old cliché and say that these are real drivers cars. Not because I'm drifting them sideways all day long, but because I really feel that the driver is put first in everything that bmw build into its cars. From the seating position to the way the indicators can be cancelled, bmws are well thought out and sublimely executed.
So in terms of the original question of 'better engineering' I would say that bmw is better engineered.
Quality-wise, the audi's cabin is a little more aesthetically pleasing, perhaps.
Mercedes were a real disappointment.
Mercedes:
Surprisingly poor quality compared to the others in this market sector. The engine noise is awful in the cabin and the controls are neither slick, nor intuitive. (god awful handbrake thing, control storks, 1990s entertainment screen) I also found the materials cheap, the seats uncomfortable and the steering wheel feedback non-existent). I've also driven a fair few e-classes (coupes and estates) and I still find them desperately lacking. I'm sure further up the price band things become better, but i worry that all we think about is the 6.3 and everything else is a compromise, leading them to be a bit of a one trick pony.
All badge and no engineering in my eyes.
Audi:
Feels similar to the merc in terms of driving experience. BUT with many of the bits n pieces better thought out. It feels how I expected the merc would feel. Steering felt better, the entertainment system was reasonably slick, LOTS of buttons - to the point of information overload.
These are good quality cars, but nothing particularly inspiring. If you prefer gadgets over actually driving, i'd recommend the audi.
Interestingly, having lived in germany for a few years now, it's generally believed that Audi is a higher quality brand than Mercedes - which i think is a bit different in the uk.
BMW:
Try as I might, I have to use the old cliché and say that these are real drivers cars. Not because I'm drifting them sideways all day long, but because I really feel that the driver is put first in everything that bmw build into its cars. From the seating position to the way the indicators can be cancelled, bmws are well thought out and sublimely executed.
So in terms of the original question of 'better engineering' I would say that bmw is better engineered.
Quality-wise, the audi's cabin is a little more aesthetically pleasing, perhaps.
Mercedes were a real disappointment.
"Best" engineered is a bit subjective as there are many aspects to engineering a car.
There is no doubt that the Japanese and Europeans still have different approaches (then add the Koreans, Americans, Chinese into the mix as well) although the differences seem to be reducing.
If Toyota have a part which works they'll just continue to use it. For example, you'll fine switches, senders and sensors on a 1990 LS which are exactly the same on a 2005 LS. If the part is proven to last 25 years they won't change the design just for the hell of it. On a typical Audi, you won't just see parts changed between different models but you'll see various revisions and changes on the same model for no engineering reason but often because they've changes suppliers, just changed it for the hell of it or the part never worked anyway.
The other aspect is the quality of the parts which go into a car. Mercedes, VAG and BMW may still make most of their cars in Germany or other high cost places but they have really screwed down prices on suppliers of sub-components forcing them to make them cheaper. So, yes, the cars are still assembled to a very high quality and the bits you can see look good but the sensors, motors, control units etc. going into them are not. This is evident that even a quick look at this forum will show most of the issues people have with the cars are failing electrical parts, sub-parts, ECU's, valves, sensors etc. - not the car failling apart. VAG in particular fit some very low quality bits.
Overall, in terms of innovation and some clever engineering solutions the Europeans still do very well. In terms of mass producing those solutions to a consistent and high quality the Japanese are still ahead but even they are not as good as they were in the 1980's.
There is no doubt that the Japanese and Europeans still have different approaches (then add the Koreans, Americans, Chinese into the mix as well) although the differences seem to be reducing.
If Toyota have a part which works they'll just continue to use it. For example, you'll fine switches, senders and sensors on a 1990 LS which are exactly the same on a 2005 LS. If the part is proven to last 25 years they won't change the design just for the hell of it. On a typical Audi, you won't just see parts changed between different models but you'll see various revisions and changes on the same model for no engineering reason but often because they've changes suppliers, just changed it for the hell of it or the part never worked anyway.
The other aspect is the quality of the parts which go into a car. Mercedes, VAG and BMW may still make most of their cars in Germany or other high cost places but they have really screwed down prices on suppliers of sub-components forcing them to make them cheaper. So, yes, the cars are still assembled to a very high quality and the bits you can see look good but the sensors, motors, control units etc. going into them are not. This is evident that even a quick look at this forum will show most of the issues people have with the cars are failing electrical parts, sub-parts, ECU's, valves, sensors etc. - not the car failling apart. VAG in particular fit some very low quality bits.
Overall, in terms of innovation and some clever engineering solutions the Europeans still do very well. In terms of mass producing those solutions to a consistent and high quality the Japanese are still ahead but even they are not as good as they were in the 1980's.
Lexus without a doubt
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-23...
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-23...
Edited by skyrover on Sunday 1st September 11:24
The arbiter on Mercs always used to be the German taxi driver community who would be the first to take delivery of new models and therefore the first to sense if there were issues or teething problems. I have never owned a Merc but had Audis and BMWs which I would say are about even. When I used to commute to Germany for work I always booked the same taxi. The driver had an S Class from about 3 series ago, the model that was quite square shaped and looked heavy, as a passenger the car felt rock solid even after 200,000kms. It was a real pleasure to ride in it.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff