XC90 Space Saver Wheel - Safe? ... design flaw
Discussion
Yesterday I drove over a thick piece of metal which tore a chunk out of a brand new General Grabber GT tyre. My car is just over three years old, a Volvo XC90 SE (10plate) I've owned from new and had serviced regularly with Volvo.
I had to take off the space saver for the first time yesterday which is no easy task whilst at the road size, fortunately it was warm and dry making it far easier. The car appeared lop sided, I checked the pressure and it was the recommended 60psi in the unused Continental space saver (which has a very shallow tread depth, no doubt since they are not intended to be driven on for more than a few miles).
The winch mechanism which is used to lower the tyre, has to be wound back up, without any wheel stored (since the full size wheel won't fit). I must say, the instructions in the Volvo Manual are woefully inadequate in terms of how to use the winch and how to release the wheel (no easy task and I consider myself quite mechanically minded)
When I came to fitting the rim with the new tyre back to the car, the winch mechanism wouldn't lower. Trying to do so, against some resistance, caused a horrible grating sound. I managed to get help from my wife to apply some counter pressure and managed to lower the cable, though it could not then be wound back up (if you attempt to drive with the winch dangling, the heavy end clamp would damage the underside of the car). After taking the metallic battery cover off and removing the insulation over the winch mechanism, to reveal the winch, it was apparent the casing had broken and the cable was all gnarled and twisted. To remove the mechanism, would require removal of the third row of seats or at least the runners on which these sit.
With the winch obviously broken, I had to cut the cable, otherwise I would not able to drive the car.
I must add, as a point aside, driving on the temporary Volvo Space Saving wheel felt very unstable, even at speeds lower than 30 mph (it is rated 'safe' to 50mph). I had to brake for a vehicle which pulled out on me, whilst driving less than 30mph. I must point out the conditions were dry and I did not perform anything like an emergency stop, but the space saving wheel caused the XC90 to swerve into the path of an oncoming lorry. I managed to regain control though did have the lorry understandibly sound his horn and flash me. These space savers are most definitely not safe. The diameter of the wheel is considerably smaller than the standard wheel, let alone it is only about three inches wide.
The winch mechanism it would appear, needs to have counter pressure applied to the clamp end of the assembly when there is no wheel under the vehicle, otherwise it spools up inside the mechanism which is what I think happened to cause it to get jammed then break. It is an entirely unsatisfactory arrangement as is the unsafe temporary spare wheel.
I had phoned Volvo customer service to express my concerns, they don't recognize any safety issues with the temporary spare and have suggested I have a main dealer have a look, without any guarantee of being able to offer assistance. The car is just outside warranty.
It does make me consider changing the vehicle for one with a full size spare. I understand a full size spare wouldn't fit under the vehicle even if I did entrust the winch mechanism. How does one apply counter pressure to the end of the cable whilst operating the winch from inside the boot without having a second pair of hands helping? It really seems like a very poor design, and one I should hope Volvo are embarrassed with. It lets down an otherwise excellent vehicle, though I can't see my wanting to keep the vehicle with a temporary spare only. I am a general practitioner doctor who uses this vehicle to reach patients all year round including winter (separate set of wheels with winter tyres fitted), so I can't really rely on breakdown services to take me on a low loader to the nearest garage, which would be of no use.
I had to take off the space saver for the first time yesterday which is no easy task whilst at the road size, fortunately it was warm and dry making it far easier. The car appeared lop sided, I checked the pressure and it was the recommended 60psi in the unused Continental space saver (which has a very shallow tread depth, no doubt since they are not intended to be driven on for more than a few miles).
The winch mechanism which is used to lower the tyre, has to be wound back up, without any wheel stored (since the full size wheel won't fit). I must say, the instructions in the Volvo Manual are woefully inadequate in terms of how to use the winch and how to release the wheel (no easy task and I consider myself quite mechanically minded)
When I came to fitting the rim with the new tyre back to the car, the winch mechanism wouldn't lower. Trying to do so, against some resistance, caused a horrible grating sound. I managed to get help from my wife to apply some counter pressure and managed to lower the cable, though it could not then be wound back up (if you attempt to drive with the winch dangling, the heavy end clamp would damage the underside of the car). After taking the metallic battery cover off and removing the insulation over the winch mechanism, to reveal the winch, it was apparent the casing had broken and the cable was all gnarled and twisted. To remove the mechanism, would require removal of the third row of seats or at least the runners on which these sit.
With the winch obviously broken, I had to cut the cable, otherwise I would not able to drive the car.
I must add, as a point aside, driving on the temporary Volvo Space Saving wheel felt very unstable, even at speeds lower than 30 mph (it is rated 'safe' to 50mph). I had to brake for a vehicle which pulled out on me, whilst driving less than 30mph. I must point out the conditions were dry and I did not perform anything like an emergency stop, but the space saving wheel caused the XC90 to swerve into the path of an oncoming lorry. I managed to regain control though did have the lorry understandibly sound his horn and flash me. These space savers are most definitely not safe. The diameter of the wheel is considerably smaller than the standard wheel, let alone it is only about three inches wide.
The winch mechanism it would appear, needs to have counter pressure applied to the clamp end of the assembly when there is no wheel under the vehicle, otherwise it spools up inside the mechanism which is what I think happened to cause it to get jammed then break. It is an entirely unsatisfactory arrangement as is the unsafe temporary spare wheel.
I had phoned Volvo customer service to express my concerns, they don't recognize any safety issues with the temporary spare and have suggested I have a main dealer have a look, without any guarantee of being able to offer assistance. The car is just outside warranty.
It does make me consider changing the vehicle for one with a full size spare. I understand a full size spare wouldn't fit under the vehicle even if I did entrust the winch mechanism. How does one apply counter pressure to the end of the cable whilst operating the winch from inside the boot without having a second pair of hands helping? It really seems like a very poor design, and one I should hope Volvo are embarrassed with. It lets down an otherwise excellent vehicle, though I can't see my wanting to keep the vehicle with a temporary spare only. I am a general practitioner doctor who uses this vehicle to reach patients all year round including winter (separate set of wheels with winter tyres fitted), so I can't really rely on breakdown services to take me on a low loader to the nearest garage, which would be of no use.
Krikkit said:
Poor design on the carrier by the sounds, but you are at fault for assuming a tiny space-saver can handle anywhere near as much force as a full-width wheel; you should leave lots of room for extra braking, as you now understand.
I understand braking distances well, when a car pulls out from a side road you have no option to brake.kapiteinlangzaam said:
My XC doesnt have a spare - just the can of goo and a compressor.
TBH I think id rather try that, than struggle with a space saver.
Thats before we cover the issue of lifting a 2200kg car on a scissor jack!
I quite agree, I also carry too and have a compressor as well as a Race X pressure gauge, a foot pump and two different types of wheel braces. I like to be prepared. Unfortunately the puncture was huge, there was a great flap (well about 3cm long) and the tyre deflated within seconds. The piece of metal, which looked like some kind of hook, looked as though it came off a tractor. It came off in the wheel arch and has also torn up the plastic trim inside the wheel arch. The sound was dreadful and I knew it wasn't good so had already slowed considerably, though was only doing about 35mph at the time of the impact, on a twisted country B road.TBH I think id rather try that, than struggle with a space saver.
Thats before we cover the issue of lifting a 2200kg car on a scissor jack!
I certainly wouldn't feel safe driving with the space saver on, in warm dry conditions even only braking moderately from a low speed, the handling was drastically affected. How Volvo, who are supposed to champion safety, think this is safe even driving the less than 50 miles recommended is beyond me. I only drove a few miles and encountered a dangerous situation. I didn't in fact at any point drive over 35mph, it just felt so unstable even under very light acceleration or braking. I dread to think what it would be like on cold wet roads.
Either tyre weld in future or wait for recovery, but then this might mean I don't get to my patients, though I guess this is unlikely.
My dilemma is do i switch for a LandRover Discovery with a full sized spare? (Then only an option). The XC90 has only done 25k miles, we had wante to keep it like our last Volvo for 8-10 years.
The other option, since you can't fit a full sized spare on the hopeless winch mechanism, is to cart around a full sized spare in the boot (and forfeit the third row of seats ... The reason we bought the car in the first place)! Frustrating.
I have a second set of winter rims, I would feel safer on a full sized winter spare than the space saver, but this arrangement would be somewhat flawed.
Aftermarket door spare tyre mounting kits are available e.g
www.dnaoffroad.com.au/standard-bar-spare-tyre-carr...
www.dnaoffroad.com.au/standard-bar-spare-tyre-carr...
2354519y said:
Aftermarket door spare tyre mounting kits are available e.g
www.dnaoffroad.com.au/standard-bar-spare-tyre-carr...
Great idea, but would this work on the upwards opening tailgate of an XC 90?www.dnaoffroad.com.au/standard-bar-spare-tyre-carr...
spirocheter said:
Krikkit said:
Poor design on the carrier by the sounds, but you are at fault for assuming a tiny space-saver can handle anywhere near as much force as a full-width wheel; you should leave lots of room for extra braking, as you now understand.
I understand braking distances well, when a car pulls out from a side road you have no option to brake.
Does sound mad to have such an enormous difference in tyre size on such a heavy vehicle.
Here's your fix. Might need some welding/drilling to fit: http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rover-parts/...
Here's your fix. Might need some welding/drilling to fit: http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rover-parts/...
Wheel carrying device issues aside, I'm not understanding the issues with the space saver? It's there simply to get you a) a place of safety or b) the nearest tyre retailer at a vastly reduced speed. Bit like cars with cans of tyre weld. Once the foam has been pumped into a deflated tyre, at best you'll only have about 15PSi of pressure in said tyre... basically enough to limp to the nearest convenient place until a proper repair can be carried out. If both methods are being used, logic would dictate you dramatically alter how you drive until the correct wheel / tyre combo / pressure has be reinstated?
And did Harris not have a go on Millbrook's short circuit in a Merc shod with four space savers. The results were actually quite surprising. Seemed to have a fair amount of grip and stability given space savers looks liek they were lifted from a cross between a 2CV and a BMX bike.
And did Harris not have a go on Millbrook's short circuit in a Merc shod with four space savers. The results were actually quite surprising. Seemed to have a fair amount of grip and stability given space savers looks liek they were lifted from a cross between a 2CV and a BMX bike.
Davie said:
Wheel carrying device issues aside, I'm not understanding the issues with the space saver? It's there simply to get you a) a place of safety or b) the nearest tyre retailer at a vastly reduced speed. Bit like cars with cans of tyre weld. Once the foam has been pumped into a deflated tyre, at best you'll only have about 15PSi of pressure in said tyre... basically enough to limp to the nearest convenient place until a proper repair can be carried out. If both methods are being used, logic would dictate you dramatically alter how you drive until the correct wheel / tyre combo / pressure has be reinstated?
And did Harris not have a go on Millbrook's short circuit in a Merc shod with four space savers. The results were actually quite surprising. Seemed to have a fair amount of grip and stability given space savers looks liek they were lifted from a cross between a 2CV and a BMX bike.
http://youtu.be/HPh90yNX-mY it's a good watch. And did Harris not have a go on Millbrook's short circuit in a Merc shod with four space savers. The results were actually quite surprising. Seemed to have a fair amount of grip and stability given space savers looks liek they were lifted from a cross between a 2CV and a BMX bike.
spirocheter said:
How does one apply counter pressure to the end of the cable whilst operating the winch from inside the boot without having a second pair of hands helping? It really seems like a very poor design, and one I should hope Volvo are embarrassed with.
Cable tie or electrical tape the jack and/or wheel brace to it. Or just cable tie the cable safely to a cross-member.
Space savers should be f
king banned. In this fart-sniffing age of roll bars, impact bars, side air bags, front air bags, rear air bags, tsc, asc and hsbc, they still insist on making the most important part of the vehicle the most dangerous when you need it most.
fk all car manufacturers, seeing as nobody uses normal wheels anymore.
king banned. In this fart-sniffing age of roll bars, impact bars, side air bags, front air bags, rear air bags, tsc, asc and hsbc, they still insist on making the most important part of the vehicle the most dangerous when you need it most.f
k all car manufacturers, seeing as nobody uses normal wheels anymore.fjord said:
Space savers should be fking banned. In this fart-sniffing age of roll bars, impact bars, side air bags, front air bags, rear air bags, tsc, asc and hsbc, they still insist on making the most important part of the vehicle the most dangerous when you need it most.
fk all car manufacturers, seeing as nobody uses normal wheels anymore.
LIKEking banned. In this fart-sniffing age of roll bars, impact bars, side air bags, front air bags, rear air bags, tsc, asc and hsbc, they still insist on making the most important part of the vehicle the most dangerous when you need it most.f
k all car manufacturers, seeing as nobody uses normal wheels anymore.I'm astonished at a few things here
1 that you'd fit space-savers onto a 4x4 which could be running large/possibly oversize offroad tyres (the reason for the shortfall in size I'm sure)
2 that you'd use undercar storage for a space saver knowing you have to put the full-size wheel into the car anyway (it's not like it's a supercar with no other choice)
3 that you'd use undercar wheel storage on a 4x4 where the mechanism gets pelted with mud and st and will rust/sieze faster than for a roadcar
The undercar storage on the dogvan (405) looks nightmarish but actually works well - when I punctured a tyre with a bootfull of dog cages/shopping I only had to grab a wrench from the boot, nothing else had to be moved and putting the dead wheel back in wasn't as hard as I'd imagined (tho it's a mucky task anyway)
I've driven on LOADS of space savers and I've never had the issues you describe. Yes, you need to be aware that braking will be interesting but unless there's standing water or you stamp on the brakes, cars continued to drive in the direction they were supposed-to in my experience.
p.s. if I'd have been you I think I'd have called a mobile tyre fitter...
1 that you'd fit space-savers onto a 4x4 which could be running large/possibly oversize offroad tyres (the reason for the shortfall in size I'm sure)
2 that you'd use undercar storage for a space saver knowing you have to put the full-size wheel into the car anyway (it's not like it's a supercar with no other choice)
3 that you'd use undercar wheel storage on a 4x4 where the mechanism gets pelted with mud and s
t and will rust/sieze faster than for a roadcarThe undercar storage on the dogvan (405) looks nightmarish but actually works well - when I punctured a tyre with a bootfull of dog cages/shopping I only had to grab a wrench from the boot, nothing else had to be moved and putting the dead wheel back in wasn't as hard as I'd imagined (tho it's a mucky task anyway)
I've driven on LOADS of space savers and I've never had the issues you describe. Yes, you need to be aware that braking will be interesting but unless there's standing water or you stamp on the brakes, cars continued to drive in the direction they were supposed-to in my experience.
p.s. if I'd have been you I think I'd have called a mobile tyre fitter...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff