The Hierarchy of the Food Chain
Discussion
Every single month, there is an anti-cyclist rant in GG. Even though the reasons are explained by cyclists, the same thing re-occurs the following month.
Why ?
My theory involves two elements, and where they overlap, is when the friction occurs.
Element 1: The Hierarchy of the Food Chain
This doesn't just apply to cars vs cyclists, it affects all the road using groups:
Truck>Van>SUV>Car>Motorcycle>Bicycle>Pedestrian
An SUV is higher in the hierarchy than a car, so expects the car to defer to the larger, more expensive SUV. You have experienced that, right ?
There are also plenty of anecdotes on PH, about a guy borrowing a Fiat 500, instead of his 5-Series, and complaining about being harassed by other cars – A Fiat 500 perceived to be lower in the hierarchy than most other cars, so gets bullied.
That damn cyclist on his cheap bike deliberately blocking you from overtaking in your expensive 320d. He probably doesn’t even have a job etc.
All examples where the hierarchy is not being obeyed, where it’s not adhering to the natural order.
But why is it so important to people ?
Element 2: The Hierarchy of the Wolf-Pack
No, we aren’t wolves, but we are to a greater or lesser extent aware of our position in the pack hierarchy. When some upstart on a cheap bike filters in front of us at a traffic light, then that is a direct challenge to our status in the pack. That bike has to be overtaken at all costs, before that next set of lights 200m further on, even if it is dangerous for the cyclist. After all, they started it…
My theory is, that the more insecure you are about your life, the success of your career etc. the more likely you are to react against something trivial like the car>bike hierarchy not being obeyed. You have to maintain your status in the pack.
So what’s the solution ?
There isn’t one. Sorry.
Why ?
My theory involves two elements, and where they overlap, is when the friction occurs.
Element 1: The Hierarchy of the Food Chain
This doesn't just apply to cars vs cyclists, it affects all the road using groups:
Truck>Van>SUV>Car>Motorcycle>Bicycle>Pedestrian
An SUV is higher in the hierarchy than a car, so expects the car to defer to the larger, more expensive SUV. You have experienced that, right ?
There are also plenty of anecdotes on PH, about a guy borrowing a Fiat 500, instead of his 5-Series, and complaining about being harassed by other cars – A Fiat 500 perceived to be lower in the hierarchy than most other cars, so gets bullied.
That damn cyclist on his cheap bike deliberately blocking you from overtaking in your expensive 320d. He probably doesn’t even have a job etc.
All examples where the hierarchy is not being obeyed, where it’s not adhering to the natural order.
But why is it so important to people ?
Element 2: The Hierarchy of the Wolf-Pack
No, we aren’t wolves, but we are to a greater or lesser extent aware of our position in the pack hierarchy. When some upstart on a cheap bike filters in front of us at a traffic light, then that is a direct challenge to our status in the pack. That bike has to be overtaken at all costs, before that next set of lights 200m further on, even if it is dangerous for the cyclist. After all, they started it…
My theory is, that the more insecure you are about your life, the success of your career etc. the more likely you are to react against something trivial like the car>bike hierarchy not being obeyed. You have to maintain your status in the pack.
So what’s the solution ?
There isn’t one. Sorry.
I very much suspect it is the reverse.
It's good old fashioned British class warfare.
The fact is that the person who is the professional leisure cyclist is statistically likely to be middle class or relatively successful in their working environment. Those who get irrationally angry with them are the Little Britain Socialists (the typical tit who doesn't even think they are a socialist because they also dislike foreigners) who need to blame others for their lot in life and it is easier when the object of their release is not in a bigger car but exposed on a bicycle.
It's good old fashioned British class warfare.
The fact is that the person who is the professional leisure cyclist is statistically likely to be middle class or relatively successful in their working environment. Those who get irrationally angry with them are the Little Britain Socialists (the typical tit who doesn't even think they are a socialist because they also dislike foreigners) who need to blame others for their lot in life and it is easier when the object of their release is not in a bigger car but exposed on a bicycle.
Anyway,
another oft-cited example is the fast-lane clearing abilities of the hypothetical Porsche 911 fitted with a VW Beetle engine in comparison to a VW Beetle fitted with a Porsche engine....
We are happy to get out of the way of the Porsche, but a bit slower to move aside for the Beetle.
another oft-cited example is the fast-lane clearing abilities of the hypothetical Porsche 911 fitted with a VW Beetle engine in comparison to a VW Beetle fitted with a Porsche engine....
We are happy to get out of the way of the Porsche, but a bit slower to move aside for the Beetle.
The problem cannot be solved but could be helped.
Have a sticky thread for the following subjects:
BMW haters
Audi haters
Cyclist haters
Stance haters
...and a link thread for all the "another what car...."
This would at least stop the daily/weekly thread creation about exactly the same subjects that overall detract from the quality of PH.
Have a sticky thread for the following subjects:
BMW haters
Audi haters
Cyclist haters
Stance haters
...and a link thread for all the "another what car...."
This would at least stop the daily/weekly thread creation about exactly the same subjects that overall detract from the quality of PH.
Many drivers seem to feel they have some kind of god-given right to abuse cyclists. In many cases I've experienced this while just riding along minding my own business and doing nothing wrong.
I notice that they are markedly less keen to act aggressively towards other drivers, however.
I assume it's because they feel safe inside their cars and the car confers on them some sort of anonymity so they feel free to behave anti-socially. There is a lot of anti-social behaviour in the UK and it seems to increase with time, as UK society self-destructs in an orgy of greed, materialism and selfishness.
The car just acts to dis-inhibit such behaviour by providing the illusion of protection and anonymity.
I notice that they are markedly less keen to act aggressively towards other drivers, however.
I assume it's because they feel safe inside their cars and the car confers on them some sort of anonymity so they feel free to behave anti-socially. There is a lot of anti-social behaviour in the UK and it seems to increase with time, as UK society self-destructs in an orgy of greed, materialism and selfishness.
The car just acts to dis-inhibit such behaviour by providing the illusion of protection and anonymity.
flip side is many cyclists are a real PITA if your a pedestrian.
I know *many* people who have been run-over by cyclists in London alone (even morons who go the wrong way down one-ways etc).
I also have an issue with cycling clubs using country roads as race tracks, it makes walking on them just about impossible as they will just ride straight at you in packs shouting for you to get out of their way.
Same deal if your in a car coming the other way, apparently your supposed to disappear to let them past?
then you get the Muppets who cycle on payments....
I do not believe any other single group of road users is as universally arrogant/obnoxious
Discuss...
I know *many* people who have been run-over by cyclists in London alone (even morons who go the wrong way down one-ways etc).
I also have an issue with cycling clubs using country roads as race tracks, it makes walking on them just about impossible as they will just ride straight at you in packs shouting for you to get out of their way.
Same deal if your in a car coming the other way, apparently your supposed to disappear to let them past?
then you get the Muppets who cycle on payments....
I do not believe any other single group of road users is as universally arrogant/obnoxious
Discuss...
Scuffers said:
flip side is many cyclists are a real PITA if your a pedestrian.
I don't particularly agree with your conclusions, but the relationship between car>bike and bike>pedestrian do have a lot of similarities.It is easy to slip into a mindset where pedestrians are a mobile chicane to be overtaken at full speed. What's the problem, I didn't touch them ?
The problem then is the perception by pedestrians, that cyclists are riding dangerously, without any consideration for their safety.
It's difficult to change that mindset in people regardless of what they ride/drive, that they have to treat people below them in the food chain with more respect.
Also, no other group seems so unable to accept any criticism. Whenever someone here, on a car website, criticizes the actions of a cyclist someone has to jump in and start ranting about how put upon cyclists are and how horrid car drivers are.
Motorcyclists don't do it. Pedestrians don't do it. HGV drivers don't do it. There is a small minority of cyclists that seem to have a massive persecution complex. They will argue that it is unfair to tar all cyclists because of the actions of a few then attack all car drivers.
I'm afraid that the big thing that gets car drivers and pedestrians backs up is the large minority of cyclists who ignore the law and cause the problems. I don't know about other cities but in London and Oxford cyclists cause all sorts of problems. It seems other cities are better from what people have been saying.
I don't see that there is a hierarchy or any general problems on the roads. There are a few people that think bigger car= right of way, but mostly people don't seem to do this.
Motorcyclists don't do it. Pedestrians don't do it. HGV drivers don't do it. There is a small minority of cyclists that seem to have a massive persecution complex. They will argue that it is unfair to tar all cyclists because of the actions of a few then attack all car drivers.
I'm afraid that the big thing that gets car drivers and pedestrians backs up is the large minority of cyclists who ignore the law and cause the problems. I don't know about other cities but in London and Oxford cyclists cause all sorts of problems. It seems other cities are better from what people have been saying.
I don't see that there is a hierarchy or any general problems on the roads. There are a few people that think bigger car= right of way, but mostly people don't seem to do this.
Innate in all humans is the ability and the tendency to look for patterns and identify patterns, and this applies even if there aren't any. This characteristic is what leads to superstition, for example: "I wore my gloves inside out and didn't crash, therefore I think I must always do this to avoid crashing"; "I prayed and things were ok, therefore praying works"; or "a friend of a friend got better after homeopathy so homeopathy works". When it comes to driving on the roads, people obviously think just the same. For example, if a BMW, cyclist or white van cuts you up and then another one does a few hours later, you start to remember the BMWs but forget the other makes of car and it creates and re-enforces a superstition. There may well be a real percentage in there somewhere, no matter how small, but the trouble is that in the human mind this behaviour quickly leads to prejudice, whereby suddenly all cyclists or all BMW drivers are idiots. The more intelligent among us laugh this sort of thing off (religion, homeopathy, superstition, all cyclists being idiots etc), but a loud minority of less intelligent people believe that sort of thing. Also, by nature of the fact they're less intelligent they have a tendency to re-enforce their superstitions and prejudices with mumbo jumbo that's plainly not true (the "road tax" argument, the "BMWs are over-priced" argument, the "BMW drivers always just drive BMWs and never their wife's Ford or the company pool cars" thing, the "evolution is rubbish because God created everything" argument, the "cyclists are never drivers and they just go everywhere on bikes" argument etc etc).
All of the above is an unavoidable fact of life sadly.
All of the above is an unavoidable fact of life sadly.
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 9th September 15:27
It's not that cyclists can use the road without paying VED that bothers me. As cyclists (correctly) point out when you say this, VED is just another tax, and has nothing to do with roads. VED is just something that stops the authorities from seizing and crushing your car.
Far more irksome to me is the that pedal cycles remain the only form of transport that can be operated on the public road without the person operating it having passed any test of basic competence, without having demonstrated any knowledge of the Highway Code, and without the legal requirement to hold insurance against third party risks.
Practically there's not much that can be done about it, but it amazes me in this day and age of health and safety, and protecting us from ourselves, that anyone can jump on a wheeled machine capable of 20-25 mph+ and ride it through the centre of a major city, mixing it up with cars, lorries, buses and motorcyles, and all with no mandatory training or testing.
Far more irksome to me is the that pedal cycles remain the only form of transport that can be operated on the public road without the person operating it having passed any test of basic competence, without having demonstrated any knowledge of the Highway Code, and without the legal requirement to hold insurance against third party risks.
Practically there's not much that can be done about it, but it amazes me in this day and age of health and safety, and protecting us from ourselves, that anyone can jump on a wheeled machine capable of 20-25 mph+ and ride it through the centre of a major city, mixing it up with cars, lorries, buses and motorcyles, and all with no mandatory training or testing.
Limpet said:
Far more irksome to me is the that pedal cycles remain the only form of transport that can be operated on the public road without the person operating it having passed any test of basic competence, without having demonstrated any knowledge of the Highway Code, and without the legal requirement to hold insurance against third party risks.
Practically there's not much that can be done about it, but it amazes me in this day and age of health and safety, and protecting us from ourselves, that anyone can jump on a wheeled machine capable of 20-25 mph+ and ride it through the centre of a major city with no training or experience.
Whilst that's sort of true (if we ignore horse riders for example), a) the overwhelming majority of cyclists hold driving licenses as well and b) most drivers would fail their driving tests if they took them tomorrow. Low driving standards caused by skill fade is the bigger problem on our roads I think. What we need are re-tests for drivers every few years and yes, the introduction of cycling and horse riding tests. We also need compulsory helmets for both parties along with hundreds of other road laws which won't ever happen because they're not vote winners for the party in question who pass the laws.Practically there's not much that can be done about it, but it amazes me in this day and age of health and safety, and protecting us from ourselves, that anyone can jump on a wheeled machine capable of 20-25 mph+ and ride it through the centre of a major city with no training or experience.
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 9th September 15:33
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