When will Carbon Fibre go main stream?

[Type R Tom]

After watching the F40 film the other day it got me thinking about carbon fibre and when we will see the material filter down to every day cars. With the constant drive to economy there is only so much engine work you can do so saving weight has to be next.

I know the cost is significant compared to metal (and so would the repair cost in an accident) but I would have thought if all the major car manufactures got together they could drive the cost down. Prehaps they could start on panels before moving to chassis etc.

Other types of tech from cars 25+ years old has filtered down so why not CF has remained only in the top end super cars? So to make cars more economical we either make them lighter or we all get down the gym and go on a heavy diet!

[northwest monkey]

Type R Tom said:

and so would the repair cost in an accident

I'd bet that's a big reason why.

[mids]

BMW i3 (from £25.7k)

[caraddict]

BMW has invested bigtime in CF to make it cheaper, in order to make the new cars lighter. I think they spent 2M £ on the upcoming i-line's development and a big chunk of that R&D was towards more efficient CF production processes.

[kambites]

As pointed out above, one could debate that it's already making its way into the mainstream with things like the i3 and the 4C using structural CF.

[RobGT81]

It won't, demand is outstripping supply as it is.

[kambites]

RobGT81 said:

It won't, demand is outstripping supply as it is.

But there is no fundamental limit to supply is there?

[RobGT81]

kambites said:

But there is no fundamental limit to supply is there?

True, there just isn't enough people making CF at the moment to make is possible for the mainstream. I can't see it happening in the next 20-30 years if at all. i3, F35, A400, 787 etc are pushing the supply limits at the moment, if every manufacturer decided to use it in such a quantity the increase in supply would have to be off the scale. You will also need a high speed process, which to be fair, Corvette are using to an extent with the new Stingray.

[Sway]

I think there's a degree of understanding that carbon fibre as we currently know it is an intermediate stage - labour intensive and difficult to work with. Materials at good quality expensive and limited in supply.

However, carbon nanotubes are starting to be properly understood, and the knowledge to make them cheaply and quickly is being developed fast.

Once it's moved to a useful, industrious process, then the possibilities are enormous. Exceptionally lightweight and strong vehicles that are cheap to repair if necessary become possible.

[ging84]

i don't think it ever will go main stream
a few bmw electric cars does not make it main stream
carbon nano tube technology has the potential to be far better than current carbon fibre, and at far less of a cost

[anonymous-user]

I don't think it will ever go "mainstream" tbh, due to the difficulties of recycling it. Metal cars (although they are already full of a lot of plastic) are easy, cheap, and efficient to recycle, and in 2012, when you think we made 81 million of the things, that's important!

[CraigyMc]

Type R Tom said:

After watching the F40 film the other day it got me thinking about carbon fibre and when we will see the material filter down to every day cars.

Odd. The F40 didn't have a carbon chassis, did it? I thought tubular steel with kevlar panels.

C

[helmutlaang]

As has been said already demand is already outstripping supply and now Airbus have ramped up build rates on A350 which is around 40% CF expect even more of a shortage.

I don't think the average person who does not work in the industry realises what a complicated and dirty process making CF is.

[Rovinghawk]

Type R Tom said:

With the constant drive to economy there is only so much engine work you can do so saving weight has to be next.

Aluminium.

[nsa]

helmutlaang said:

As has been said already demand is already outstripping supply and now Airbus have ramped up build rates on A350 which is around 40% CF expect even more of a shortage.

I don't think the average person who does not work in the industry realises what a complicated and dirty process making CF is.

Making the fibre or forming it? Somebody will crack how to remove much of the manual process from forming. It sounds like BMW are making headway:

"Each carbon fiber part comprises 7 to 11 layers of fabric. It’s cut into 2D shapes. Several small cuttings may be formed into one larger part. 3D presses in the Leipzig facility create the near final component. With the RTM (resin transfer molding) press closed, air is extracted, resin is injected under high pressure, and the part is quickly formed. When it comes out, edges are trimmed with a water jet. The outer layer is the car’s body color, so there’s no separate painting step, which is one of a traditional factory’s biggest water- and energy-consumers.

According to Schafer, careful control of the process steps, especially temperature and pressure, speeds up the work, so parts-forming might take minutes not hours. BMW uses a special glue to combine parts that can be positioned normally, but as soon as heat and pressure are applied, the curing process speeds up by a factor of 32."

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/162582-bmw-i3-w...

[RobGT81]

nsa said:

Making the fibre or forming it?

Making the fibre itself, is a dirty horrible chemical process which I think Helmut is referring to.

[helmutlaang]

Yes,actually making it from raw materials is what I ment.

A hugely expensive dirty complicated chemical process as Rob says.

[Wills2]

BMW have been using it for years for panels (CSL/e92 M3) with the forth coming M3/M4 rumoured to be using more in its construction, so yes I guess it already has in that they aren't supercars and has been pointed out so does the new i3, not sure whether a fiesta/corsa will use it anytime soon though.

[Wadeski]

Surely if demand is forecasted to sky rocket, more companies (probably Chinese...) will get into the game to, you know, make money?

[CountZero23]

helmutlaang said:

As has been said already demand is already outstripping supply.

Surely this should mean more investment in production and advances in manufacture thus driving down prices?