If The Day Came Where a Kia Was Better Than a BM?

[Tannedbaldhead]

Imagine the scenario. Kia/Hyundai or some over large cash rich but far from premier brand decide to throw a stload of money at the development of a premium brand rivalling car. A combination of resources, the poaching of the right guys to carry forward the project and a bit of luck and they hit a sweetspot, a Kia better than a BM. It's a bit cheaper, a bit better, handles beautifully and has a sweet, soulfull, sonorous engine and brilliant autobox. What's more, it's nicely styled and the press rave at how the poaching of Mercedes' top interior designer and the provision of a blank check has provided a car that's a very nice place to be.

Would anyone look at such a car and say "sorry mate, not with THAT badge in front" then head straight for the BMW/Audi/Mercedes/Jaguar showroom for a car that wasn't quite as good.

[MissChief]

No, because to a great many people Badge matters more than the car itself. There are still some people that won't even consider a Skoda even though they make very good cars and are more or less VW's in drag.

[m444ttb]

If they build car that did all the things I like about BMWs but better then I'd absolutely be interested. However I'm always going to be way down the used car chain.

[GetCarter]

Tannedbaldhead said:

Imagine the scenario. Kia/Hyundai or some over large cash rich but far from premier brand decide to throw a stload of money at the development of a premium brand rivalling car. A combination of resources, the poaching of the right guys to carry forward the project and a bit of luck and they hit a sweetspot, a Kia better than a BM. It's a bit cheaper, a bit better, handles beautifully and has a sweet, soulfull, sonorous engine and brilliant autobox. What's more, it's nicely styled and the press rave at how the poaching of Mercedes' top interior designer and the provision of a blank check has provided a car that's a very nice place to be.

Would anyone look at such a car and say "sorry mate, not with THAT badge in front" then head straight for the BMW/Audi/Mercedes/Jaguar showroom for a car that wasn't quite as good.

There will always be stupid people. Plenty of them to go round.

Personally, I moved from NW3 to IV54 - so, as you can see, the badge means nothing, it's the quality of the product!

Edited by GetCarter on Saturday 21st September 17:16

[A205GTI]

The issue here is yes it may be better and private car buyers may look at it.

But...

If you talk to any company car driver Kia doesn't even get mentioned, if it does its usually followed by I cant believe your company let you choose that.

Most Company Car drivers will go for BM or Merc as they are still percieved as premium brands, I even know people who are choosing the 1 series as company cars.

Until they can crack this market they wont be classed as doing premium cars.

And dont forget the new Mondeo is due soon and that has had rave reviews.

[VinceFox]

If it's manual, rwd, 2 door and powerful i'm listening. I only bought the m3 becaues it had no competition in its class and price.

[grumbledoak]

People used to say that about Skoda. And I'm told some of Jaguar's designers were taken for a spin in a new Lexus and then sacked on the spot. The world turns.

Idiots are plentiful, mind; I wouldn't buy a BMW now.

[Cemesis]

It an interesting question as whilst BMW's and Merc's are certainly including clever tech in their cars, the quality of the car itself is clearly going down when compared with previous models whilst the likes of Kia and Hyundai are getting better car by car. Will they eventually overlap? I would like to see it myself...

...but then I did buy a Skoda.

[MysteryLemon]

MissChief said:

No, because to a great many people Badge matters more than the car itself. There are still some people that won't even consider a Skoda even though they make very good cars and are more or less VW's in drag.

Those people will die soon and the people who are growing up now with the knowledge that kia/hyundai/skoda etc are actually very capable cars will buy them.

Guy up the road has a brand new Hyundai I40 saloon. It's a gorgeous looking thing. Far better looking than any of the boring rep mobiles BMW, Audi, VW or Mercedes have put out in the last few years.

Edited by MysteryLemon on Saturday 21st September 17:13

[HustleRussell]

There would be an apocolyptic argument on Pistonheads.

[Fantuzzi]

If you by a car for its a badge you're not a petrolhead.

I think Kia/hyundai cars are already better looking than most of the European mainstream cars, fiat, Renault, Citroen, ford, vw.

[Tannedbaldhead]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Hyundai already do - its just that they dont sell them in Europe.

The Equus

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/genesis/

kapiteinlangzaam said:

From £21,000 Stateside.


and the Genesis

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/equus/

They both come with a 5.0L V8

Kia also offer the Cadenza stateside, but it falls down due to being FWD - still, its got a 300bhp V6

From £37,820

I know US prices are nowhere near as high as ours but at the figures just stated German brands are going to struggle.

[McWigglebum4th]

Looking at BMWs current range i think this will happen in the future


About a week next tuesday


Maybe wednesday

[vikingaero]

If Kia made a car as good in styling/driving/quality they still wouldn't beat BMW. Why? Engines. BMW engines are way ahead in terms of power and MPG. Look at equivalent Toyota and Honda engines and they have nowhere near the power/MPG of a BMW engine.

The other problem is choice. Toyota/Honda have their levels of spec. Take it or leave it with or without metallic - S, ES, SE, SEL etc etc. Premium cars have way more options and at this level a load of people want to spec and personalise a car.

[confused_buyer]

If a car is on every single company car list what is "premium" about it? It is just to the current era what a Cortina was to the 70's, the Cavalier to the 80's and Mondeo to the 90's.

In terms of warranty and customer service Kia etc are already way ahead and the actual cars are closer than many will admit.

[750turbo]

McWigglebum4th said:

Looking at BMWs current range i think this will happen in the future


About a week next tuesday


Maybe wednesday

Rubbish....









































Friday!

[McWigglebum4th]

vikingaero said:

If Kia made a car as good in styling/driving/quality they still wouldn't beat BMW. Why? Engines. BMW engines are way ahead in terms of power and MPG. Look at equivalent Toyota and Honda engines and they have nowhere near the power/MPG of a BMW engine.

The other problem is choice. Toyota/Honda have their levels of spec. Take it or leave it with or without metallic - S, ES, SE, SEL etc etc. Premium cars have way more options and at this level a load of people want to spec and personalise a car.

And they all choose a grey diesel one with black leather and satnav


Why bother?

[maffski]

Tannedbaldhead said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Hyundai already do - its just that they dont sell them in Europe.

The Equus

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/genesis/

kapiteinlangzaam said:

From £21,000 Stateside.


and the Genesis

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/equus/

They both come with a 5.0L V8

Kia also offer the Cadenza stateside, but it falls down due to being FWD - still, its got a 300bhp V6

From £37,820

I know US prices are nowhere near as high as ours but at the figures just stated German brands are going to struggle.

Doesn't look to be that much in it - MSRP for the Equus is $61,000 and $63,900 for a BMW 550i, so about 5% - although I don't know what the kit levels are like, for the BM I suspect anything more than a steering wheel is optional

[E38Ross]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Hyundai 5.0 Tau engine.

Horsepower: 429 hp
Torque: 510 Nm
MPG: around 27-30mpg extra urban in the Equus (7 series sized)

Seems alright to me !

Bmw 750i

4.4 litre engine
Power - 450
Torque - 650

MPG - combined almost 33, extra urban over 40.

Again, just figures I know so not likely to get those mpg figures, but then neither with the Hyundai.

[E38Ross]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

E38Ross said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Hyundai 5.0 Tau engine.

Horsepower: 429 hp
Torque: 510 Nm
MPG: around 27-30mpg extra urban in the Equus (7 series sized)

Seems alright to me !

Bmw 750i

4.4 litre engine
Power - 450
Torque - 650

MPG - combined almost 33, extra urban over 40.

Again, just figures I know so not likely to get those mpg figures, but then neither with the Hyundai.

About the same basically - the 750i is only 440bhp with this years VVT engine upgrade, previously it was 400bhp.

In any case, they are both 5.0 V8s with 400+ bhp, 500ish Nm torque and about 20-25mpg as a combined cycle.

The point I was making was to the poster that suggested BMW are 'leagues' ahead with their engines... its clearly not the case (anymore)

(Ive never had a Korean car, probably never will TBH - I like my Swedish cars too much. I just felt like some posters in this thread needed to be made aware of reality).

Did you read the figures I gave you? 4.4 vs 5.0 where the 4.4 has more power and noticeably better economy. Around 30% better. I'd say that's another league.