Total Brake Failure !!

[bonesX]

Coming home just down my narrow lane commute road in the Ka, needed to brake moderately heavily as a lorry was coming the other way... nearside flexi pipe let go and pedal went straight to the floor

My reaction was to pump again quickly and this resulted in the o/s front locking and the car going a little sideways, so found myself squeezing through a minuscule gap at ~40mph slightly out of shape

Got through and the brake pedal now goes all the way to the floor with nothing happening

Now when I bought the car about 6 months ago the flexis were changed as they were mot failures, and the garage had 'their man' change them. Looking at both fronts they have kinks in them and are twisted

I am just very relieved as that could have been so different

[jon-]

Wow, it's rare you hear of flexis failing these days.

I'm sure in the moment I wouldn't think quite as clearly, but I'd be tempted to jam it into first if doing around 30mph and click the handbrake up enough to help, but not lock the rears.

[Daston]

Similar thing happend to a lady I used to work with. Sadly it ended up with her rear ending a lorry at speed. Didn't turn as well for her.

I always thing "what will I do if these breaks don't work" when having to do emergancy stops or slowing from high speeds.

[Liquid Tuna]

I had a similar experience in a mk1 mondeo where the brakelines are hidden at one point by the fuel tank. Mr MOT man can't see them so doesn't know how corroded that bit is. First I knew was coming off the M42 down to the traffic island and the lights change to red. I brake and nothing happens

Glad you were ok.

[bonesX]

I really didn't think about the handbrake as the gap was just about enough to get through, and the car was moving about a bit.

I was planning on slowing to an almost stop and pulling over, but if I couldn't have seen any way through then the situation would have been different again

[98elise]

All brakes are dual circuit aren't they? It should be near impossible to lose all brakes due to a single line failure.

[hairyben]

I thought all cars had dual systems working opposite corners the point of which was to avoid total failure due to one fault?

[bonesX]

98elise said:

All brakes are dual circuit aren't they? It should be near impossible to lose all brakes due to a single line failure.

This is of course true... however, the pedal did go to the floor. The pedal has always travelled what seems like half way or just over before a bite, so I need to look into what's ahppened

[Riyazc]

one of my earliest memories (must have been 6) was my dad coming upto a junction with a main road ... pressing the brakes and nothing happening and having to turn onto the main road!

I remember him mounting the kerb hard and the car coming to a halt.

Got to love those Hillman's eh... was 1981

[98elise]

bonesX said:

98elise said:

All brakes are dual circuit aren't they? It should be near impossible to lose all brakes due to a single line failure.

This is of course true... however, the pedal did go to the floor. The pedal has always travelled what seems like half way or just over before a bite, so I need to look into what's ahppened

I don't doubt it happened, but for it to have occured you're potentially looking at two failures not one.

You need to get to the bottom of how it happened. Its not nice to lose the brakes, it happened to my wife in a mk1 golf which had a single system.

[bonesX]

Good grief, I didn't think there were any single systems left

But, yes, need to find out what's ahppened, and yes, not nice

[AJB]

bonesX said:

98elise said:

All brakes are dual circuit aren't they? It should be near impossible to lose all brakes due to a single line failure.

This is of course true... however, the pedal did go to the floor. The pedal has always travelled what seems like half way or just over before a bite, so I need to look into what's ahppened

Is it possible that it didn't go all the way to the floor, but it went down until the other circuit got some pressure somewhere near the floor? Your brain might have reacted to the unexpected extra movement and pumped instinctively?

If it isn't that then, as you say, there's something else wrong too which needs sorting!

Does it have manual adjusters on the rear brakes? Could it just be that they are way out of adjustment and have far too much travel (taking up pedal movement)?

[AJB]

98elise said:

I don't doubt it happened, but for it to have occured you're potentially looking at two failures not one.

You need to get to the bottom of how it happened. Its not nice to lose the brakes, it happened to my wife in a mk1 golf which had a single system.

Was the mk1 Golf really single circuit?!? The 1968 Beetle I had a few years back was the first year of dual circuit brakes on them. It seems odd that they went back to single circuit for the Golf.

[Evoluzione]

Daston said:

I always thing "what will I do if these breaks don't work" when having to do emergancy stops or slowing from high speeds.

Everyone deserves a break now and again don't they? Especially after one of those emergancy type scenarios.
A thing are woulda craped myself.

[ooo000ooo]

Many years ago I came flying up to a red light late one night in my mk1 fiesta, a plastic bottle had rolled from under the seat and wedged beneath the brake pedal. Being a teenager, braking was always left as late as possible so it came as a bit of a surprise when the brake pedal didn't move. Luckily a couple of days before, ye olde top gear had done a piece on what to do in case of brake failure, so cool as a cucumber I turned the ignition off, dropped down the gears and applied the handbrake. Stopped just over the line, thankfully there were no cars in front.

[Justin Cyder]

AJB said:

98elise said:

I don't doubt it happened, but for it to have occured you're potentially looking at two failures not one.

You need to get to the bottom of how it happened. Its not nice to lose the brakes, it happened to my wife in a mk1 golf which had a single system.

Was the mk1 Golf really single circuit?!? The 1968 Beetle I had a few years back was the first year of dual circuit brakes on them. It seems odd that they went back to single circuit for the Golf.

Didn't the Mk1 Golf have it's braking system gubbins on the nearside of the UK version & a connecting rod added for right hand drive cars? ISTR it had a fairly soft braking action as a result of the added mechanicals. Might be my memory letting me down though.

I agree though, a total failure would suggest more than a damaged flexi hose. I wouldn't drive it again if it were mine until I'd been over the pedal, rods, servo, lines, flexi hoses, callipers, discs & pads with a fine tooth comb.

[leafspring]

Dads (1960) Land Rover is single circuit, hence my tendency to slow down using the gears and engine braking in conjunction with the middle pedal.

Glad your OK OP... Don't know what I would do, possibly drop a gear or 2 and pull the handbrake gently.

[Krikkit]

AJB said:

bonesX said:

98elise said:

All brakes are dual circuit aren't they? It should be near impossible to lose all brakes due to a single line failure.

This is of course true... however, the pedal did go to the floor. The pedal has always travelled what seems like half way or just over before a bite, so I need to look into what's ahppened

Is it possible that it didn't go all the way to the floor, but it went down until the other circuit got some pressure somewhere near the floor? Your brain might have reacted to the unexpected extra movement and pumped instinctively?

If it isn't that then, as you say, there's something else wrong too which needs sorting!

Does it have manual adjusters on the rear brakes? Could it just be that they are way out of adjustment and have far too much travel (taking up pedal movement)?

I think this is the most sensible explanation - there may have just been a little braking going on right at floor level, but instinctively you assume the whole thing is knackered and go for another option.

[Ug_lee]

bonesX said:

My reaction was to pump again quickly and this resulted in the o/s front locking and the car going a little sideways

Isn't that evidence the dual circuit was working as they operate diagonally opposite calipers? If a hose went and the dual circuit was gubbed, you would get zero braking force.

Glad you got out of it, cannot be a nice thing to happen to anyone!

[Ozzie Osmond]

98elise said:

All brakes are dual circuit aren't they? It should be near impossible to lose all brakes due to a single line failure.

Exactly.

Total faiire only occurs after multiple brake applications on a failed system where eventually all of the fluid has been pumped out of the reservoir. Even then, the remaining circuit should normally still have fluid in it to enable it to function.