Almera GTI not starting & gone weird, your theories please..

[VeeFource]

Just went to move my Mum's Almera GTI on her drive. Initially made the usual starting noise followed by a thunk and now it won't start at all. The weird part is the engine sounds different on every fourth compression stroke so clearly something has gone awry with one of the cylinders.

Thinking possibly blown head gasket? Seems odd to do so when it's cold and even more so that the engine's not even trying on the other cylinders.

I'm confuzled

[Amused2death]

Unlikely HG would cause that sort of noise on startup. Unless dear ole mum had buggered it beforehand and the engine ran out of fluids/Oil. If happening on a rotational basis I'd be whipping the sparkplugs out and looking down the holes with a torch, see if something visible there that shouldn't be.

[VeeFource]

Amused2death said:

Unlikely HG would cause that sort of noise on startup. Unless dear ole mum had buggered it beforehand and the engine ran out of fluids/Oil. If happening on a rotational basis I'd be whipping the sparkplugs out and looking down the holes with a torch, see if something visible there that shouldn't be.

Yeah it is an odd one. I'd have done that already but my tools are back home 200 miles away, will have to see if I can borrow some

[Amused2death]

Could the cambelt have slipped a tooth or two?

[VeeFource]

Amused2death said:

Unlikely HG would cause that sort of noise on startup. Unless dear ole mum had buggered it beforehand and the engine ran out of fluids/Oil. If happening on a rotational basis I'd be whipping the sparkplugs out and looking down the holes with a torch, see if something visible there that shouldn't be.

Yeah it is an odd one. I'd have done that already but my tools are back home 200 miles away, will have to see if I can borrow some

[VeeFource]

Amused2death said:

Could the cambelt have slipped a tooth or two?

Nope, it's chain driven (thankfully)

[jjones]

VeeFource said:

Nope, it's chain driven (thankfully)

guess it cold still stretch and jump

[Futuramic]

VeeFource said:

Just went to move my Mum's Almera GTI on her drive. Initially made the usual starting noise followed by a thunk and now it won't start at all. The weird part is the engine sounds different on every fourth compression stroke so clearly something has gone awry with one of the cylinders.

Thinking possibly blown head gasket? Seems odd to do so when it's cold and even more so that the engine's not even trying on the other cylinders.

I'm confuzled

Have you checked for sparks and fuel? And are you sure the noise wasn't there beforehand but was covered by the engine running?

Personally I'd start with the fuel pump; they can just stop working and leave a dead engine. It happened to me whilst driving once! The thunk noise could have been the pump seizing. I remember my car went bang at the time; initially I thought the cam-belt had snapped. Which isn't a problem on the Almera.

How different does it sound?

[VeeFource]

Futuramic said:

Have you checked for sparks and fuel? And are you sure the noise wasn't there beforehand but was covered by the engine running?

Personally I'd start with the fuel pump; they can just stop working and leave a dead engine. It happened to me whilst driving once! The thunk noise could have been the pump seizing. I remember my car went bang at the time; initially I thought the cam-belt had snapped. Which isn't a problem on the Almera.

How different does it sound?

Apparently it ran fine when it was used yesterday, but it definitely doesn't sound right when turning it over on the starter.. every fourth compression stroke sounds different so I suspect the compression's gone in one of the cylinders

[Futuramic]

VeeFource said:

Futuramic said:

Have you checked for sparks and fuel? And are you sure the noise wasn't there beforehand but was covered by the engine running?

Personally I'd start with the fuel pump; they can just stop working and leave a dead engine. It happened to me whilst driving once! The thunk noise could have been the pump seizing. I remember my car went bang at the time; initially I thought the cam-belt had snapped. Which isn't a problem on the Almera.

How different does it sound?

Apparently it ran fine when it was used yesterday, but it definitely doesn't sound right when turning it over on the starter.. every fourth compression stroke sounds different so I suspect the compression's gone in one of the cylinders

Ew,

Maybe the timing chain has broken! That's a cheerful response I know but it might explain why it isn't starting. And you might get a different noise from the cylinder with valves stuck open. Would explain the bang too as i think those are interference engines.

Other than that major mechanical damage would surely be obvious; like if the crank or a con-rod had broken? You'd hear horrible metallic noises from the loose stuff rattling around the bottom.

Broken camshaft? Without seeing it it's hard to tell. Can you describe the noise in greater detail?

[LuS1fer]

Have you considered the starter motor itself - teeth can break off the motor or even the flywheel. Does it start on a hill?

[VeeFource]

Futuramic said:

Ew,

Maybe the timing chain has broken! That's a cheerful response I know but it might explain why it isn't starting. And you might get a different noise from the cylinder with valves stuck open. Would explain the bang too as i think those are interference engines.

Other than that major mechanical damage would surely be obvious; like if the crank or a con-rod had broken? You'd hear horrible metallic noises from the loose stuff rattling around the bottom.

Broken camshaft? Without seeing it it's hard to tell. Can you describe the noise in greater detail?

Just been out and checked to see if the camshafts turn through the oil filler cap and they do so that rules out the chain. There's no starter issues, the engine's turning over but it's not an even rhythm. It is trying to start a bit and there's a smell of petrol from the exhaust so don't think it's a fuel issue. There's a bit of a weird clunking noise when it's turning over and the car vibrates a bit but that could just be down to the odd compression rhythm. Not looking good though me thinks

Edited by VeeFource on Monday 30th September 19:06

[Futuramic]

VeeFource said:

Futuramic said:

Ew,

Maybe the timing chain has broken! That's a cheerful response I know but it might explain why it isn't starting. And you might get a different noise from the cylinder with valves stuck open. Would explain the bang too as i think those are interference engines.

Other than that major mechanical damage would surely be obvious; like if the crank or a con-rod had broken? You'd hear horrible metallic noises from the loose stuff rattling around the bottom.

Broken camshaft? Without seeing it it's hard to tell. Can you describe the noise in greater detail?

Just been out and checked to see if the camshafts turn through the oil filler cap and they do so that rules out the chain. There's no starter issues, the engine's turning over but it's not an even rhythm. It is trying to start a bit and there's a smell of petrol from the exhaust so don't think it's a fuel issue. There's a bit of a weird clunking noise when it's turning over and the car vibrates a bit but that could just be down to the odd compression rhythm. Not looking good though me thinks

Edited by VeeFource on Monday 30th September 19:06

Piston rings?

This is odd, however. A four cylinder will run on three quite happily, so loss of compression in one cylinder doesn't really explain what's happened to the others.

[VeeFource]

Futuramic said:

Piston rings?

This is odd, however. A four cylinder will run on three quite happily, so loss of compression in one cylinder doesn't really explain what's happened to the others.

Certainly is, thought I was pretty savvy on stuff like this but got to say I'm stumped. Once I've got tools I'll investigate further and let you know what I find. Doubt it'll be anything trivial unfortunately..

[littleredrooster]

I know it's a very rare occurrence, but I think it may have dropped a valve. My first thought was a snapped cambelt, but a) it hasn't got one and, b) you've already eliminated that.

[VeeFource]

littleredrooster said:

I know it's a very rare occurrence, but I think it may have dropped a valve. My first thought was a snapped cambelt, but a) it hasn't got one and, b) you've already eliminated that.

Good point, could well be. But would this not result in lots of horrible metallic noises of loose bits of valve bouncing around in there though?

[CubanPete]

Is it sparking?

Could something have failed inside the distributor? Could explain a lucky part spark (or other non specific clank) every fourth cycle.

I think a dropped valve / broken cam or the like would sound much more catastrophic

Edited by CubanPete on Monday 30th September 21:12

[Mr2Mike]

It's quite possible for a cam chain to jump teeth on the sprockets if there is a tensioner fault,

[VeeFource]

Mr2Mike said:

It's quite possible for a cam chain to jump teeth on the sprockets if there is a tensioner fault,

Worth investigating. Cheers, will let you know what I find when I get to strip it down

[Mr2Mike]

VeeFource said:

Worth investigating. Cheers, will let you know what I find when I get to strip it down

See if you can borrow a compression tester before stripping anything, at least that will make sure you don't take the head off unnecessarily.