RE: Zenos Project E10 - design
Wednesday 2nd October 2013
So far the Zenos Project E10 has been revealed to us from the inside out. We know about the inspiration, the chassis and how the technical USP of an extruded aluminium spine and tub made of recycled carbon came about.
Number crunching and engineering done...But what's the finished product going to look like?
...time to make it look pretty too!To expand a little Ali says the 'intelligence' bit comes from the tub at the heart of the Zenos architecture. "Our technical partners came back with the proposition of using recycled carbon material because of its low mass and cost," he says. "Similarly the approach to the body programme stems from customer affordability, both at the point of purchase and during ownership. Using recycled carbon for the tub allows it to be part of the external body, thus reducing the number and size of body panels. If there have to be panels then make sure they are affordable to replace."
Zenos Project E10 - design
So what will the Zenos actually look like? Ansar Ali talks us through the aesthetics...
Number crunching and engineering done...
Credit due to Zenos for laying the financial and engineering foundations first. "It is hardly surprising that most projects start off with a vision - a design vision - intended to seduce and beguile aspiring owners," writes Ansar Ali exclusively for PH. He goes on to explain that before a marker pen (or its digital equivalent) even touched a drawing board he and co-founder Mark Edwards sat down and identified key words that would inform the way both the brand and products would develop. Words like 'rigorous', 'accessible', 'true', 'fun' and 'pure' came to mind, 'thrill' and 'intelligence' selected as the core to the brand identity.
There's a risk there of coming across more like goatee stroking, latte-sipping ad execs than hard headed engineers creating a back to basics sports car brand. But Ali and Edwards would counter it's important for Zenos to have an emotional heart, as well as a technological one.
...time to make it look pretty too!
Which is how the early sketches showing wheelarches overlapping the tub came about, the latter smaller than shown in the early proposals to help keep costs down. In total the finished design will have about 15 panels, all intended to be "easily and economically replaceable."
The thrill bit? Well, 300hp per tonne is a good start, likewise this implication they intend owners to feel like they can push the car hard and not fear a small prang will write it off. As far as expressing that in design terms goes take a look at the sketches and see what you think...
Pictures: PH/Zenos
Discussion
Isn't the limited market already saturated with these?
Why cant he be bothered to make a proper car with a roof, akin to Lotus?
I wager its because this is the relatively easy option, but I can't see many opting for this unless it offers something different to all the others, like perhaps an exotic engine.
Why cant he be bothered to make a proper car with a roof, akin to Lotus?
I wager its because this is the relatively easy option, but I can't see many opting for this unless it offers something different to all the others, like perhaps an exotic engine.
chelme said:
Isn't the limited market already saturated with these?
Why cant he be bothered to make a proper car with a roof, akin to Lotus?
I wager its because this is the relatively easy option, but I can't see many opting for this unless it offers something different to all the others, like perhaps an exotic engine.
One of the models after this, the E12, will have a roof. It looks like the E11 will be more Elise shaped, so possibly include a removable roof?Why cant he be bothered to make a proper car with a roof, akin to Lotus?
I wager its because this is the relatively easy option, but I can't see many opting for this unless it offers something different to all the others, like perhaps an exotic engine.
http://www.zenoscars.com/e11-specification/
Ex Boy Racer said:
I wonder if Chapman started off with all this marketing 'brand' claptrap when he designed the 7. Or did he just try to build the fastest car he could at a price.
Bring back minimalism - in all its forms
Colin Chapman designed the Lotus 7 one Sunday afternoon in 1957 at home after lunch at the suggestion of his wife Hazel that what they needed now was a far more affordable 2 seater sportscar in the range that less wealthy young men could go to work in it everyday and use in competition at the weekends. Colin and his regular Sunday lunch guest "Mac" MacIntosh a designer at DeHavillands Hatfield drew up the car in an afternoon and next morning Colin set the men to work cutting down an existing Lotus 11 chassis and modifying it as an exposed wheel/mudguard car .It was running by the end of the week with a mocked up body.Bring back minimalism - in all its forms
In 1960, ( financilly bleak times )to further boost sales prices were reduced in a still simpler revised version, in kit form to £399 less engine & gearbox £499 with 100E sidevalve & gearbox and at £599 with a 105E OHV engine & box. The rest as they say is history over the next 56 years.
Edited by RTH on Wednesday 2nd October 14:15
RTH said:
Ex Boy Racer said:
I wonder if Chapman started off with all this marketing 'brand' claptrap when he designed the 7. Or did he just try to build the fastest car he could at a price.
Bring back minimalism - in all its forms
Colin Chapman designed the Lotus 7 one Sunday afternoon at home after lunch at the suggestion of his wife Hazel that what they needed now was a far more affordable 2 seater sportscar in the range that young men could go to work in everyday and use in competition at the weekends. Colin and his regular Sunday lunch guest "Mac" MacIntosh a designer at DeHavillands Hatfield drew up the car in an afternoon and next morning Colin set the men to work cutting down an existing Lotus 11 chassis and motifying it as an exposed wheel car .It was running by the end of the week with a mocked up body.Bring back minimalism - in all its forms
In 1960, ( financilly bleak times )to further boost sales prices were reduced in kit form to £399 less engine & gearbox £499 with 100E sidevalve & gearbox and at £599 with a 105E OHV engine & box. The rest as they say is history over the next 56 years.
Thank you for those kind words.
Might I refer you to this thread, 8 pages long, which recounts early Lotus history and lots of pictures of the people & places involved.
http://forums.autosport.com/topic/93932-lotus-the-... +hornsey
Might I refer you to this thread, 8 pages long, which recounts early Lotus history and lots of pictures of the people & places involved.
http://forums.autosport.com/topic/93932-lotus-the-... +hornsey
chelme said:
Why cant he be bothered to make a proper car with a roof, akin to Lotus?
Development cost. I expect adding a proper roof and doors is an NVH nightmare which even the most commited wouldn't put up with.This design, whilst a long way from reality, still makes the new Caterham look pretty f'kin crap.
I'd like to ask to Zeno's team: why don't you launch a community design challenge at Local Motors, keeping spaceframe and suspension as design constraints? That would be fast, interesting, marketing oriented, giving visibility to the (but not only) US market??
https://forge.localmotors.com/pages/competition.ph...
https://forge.localmotors.com/pages/competition.ph...
pagani1 said:
If it comes out at Atom price it will be okay. Not at Mono price or even near hopefully.
Another new car company starts out with high hopes-Best of luck to them.
They've mentioned "affordable" quite a few times.. so fingers crossed it's certainly more Elise/Atom than Mono!Another new car company starts out with high hopes-Best of luck to them.
I like it. The sketches will always look a bit over the top, but I love the basic shape and design and hope the real thing turns out as good!
I will say though, if this is to replace my Caterham in a few years, I'll be waiting for the version with a roof. I don't care what it's made of, but it needs to keep the rain out as a permanently open-top car is just not practical in this country.
I will say though, if this is to replace my Caterham in a few years, I'll be waiting for the version with a roof. I don't care what it's made of, but it needs to keep the rain out as a permanently open-top car is just not practical in this country.
I like the sketches although I do wish that someone would try and style a car with normal proportions and a realistic wheel size etc from the beginning. Sorry to be boring but it's (relatively!) easy to sketch something that looks awesome and loosely resembles a car, but there is a real art in managing to translate that into a production vehicle where the wheels aren't 6ft diameter and the car isn't wide enough to cover 2 lanes.
What does concern me is their talk about body panels... sure keeping the body panels down keeps the cost down, and if you're going to do that then why not make the exposed tub aesthetically pleasing and use some of that as the external form. BUT then they talk about repairability. Now to me, "exposed tub" is not synonymous with "cheap to repair". Call me crazy? If you have a little dink that trashes a wing, then that's easy to fix. But if you have a little dink in the wrong way which means that the exposed areas of tub take the brunt of a hit, you're looking at an entirely new chassis - or at least a very expensive repair.
What does concern me is their talk about body panels... sure keeping the body panels down keeps the cost down, and if you're going to do that then why not make the exposed tub aesthetically pleasing and use some of that as the external form. BUT then they talk about repairability. Now to me, "exposed tub" is not synonymous with "cheap to repair". Call me crazy? If you have a little dink that trashes a wing, then that's easy to fix. But if you have a little dink in the wrong way which means that the exposed areas of tub take the brunt of a hit, you're looking at an entirely new chassis - or at least a very expensive repair.
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