rwd or fwd for snow?
Discussion
HertsBiker said:
Let's not worry about tyres yet.. What's best, and why? Now add decent tyres, not necessarily winters, which is best? I don't want to go the 4x4 route so lets not bother mentioning it please, just stick to the 2wd models. What gives best traction, what corners best, what stops best?
Why not AWD??If you can't drive, then people seem to prefer FWD. However given the choice I much prefer RWD with an LSD over FWD with an open diff. Once moving you'll have far more control over direction. Starting off can be more of a challenge, but not impossible.
I've used a 200SX and a 5.7 V8 Camaro in heavy snow and both worked very very well and better than any FWD car I've driven.
I would not advise RWD with an open diff however.
Tyres can and will make a difference.
In terms of stopping, 2wd is pretty equal, but 4wd is superior as you can engine brake with far more control than just using the brake pedal.
EDIT:
Classic Beetle or 911 even with an open diff are probably pretty handy too.
Remember lots of off road racing vehicles are 2wd, and despite driving on loose slippery surfaces, none of them tend to be FWD.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Monday 7th October 18:01
JM said:
nonuts said:
HertsBiker said:
Let's not worry about tyres yet..
That's all well and good, but the answer is either the correct tyres or AWD.
A strange question without a simple answer. What matters in a slippery situation where not much acceleration (and therefore weight transfer) can be generated is which layout has the most mass over the driven wheels at rest. As soon as you start accelerating (i.e. wet or dry tarmac - no snow or mud etc), it's all about which layout has the most mass over the end that gets the 'weight' over it under acceleration, but if there's not much accelerating going on, as with snow, then you're better off with a static weight distribution that puts weight over the driven wheels at rest, and the 2WD layouts that give that are: FWD/FE & RWD/RE firstly, and then next down from that would be ME/RWD and then finally the worst layout, FE/RWD. It's not simply a matter of FWD or RWD, it's the layout of the car as well.
Three other things worth mentioning:
1) Pressure put down on the road: a car with skinny tyres is going to give superior traction and grip than a car with fat tyres. A base spec Ka with skinny tyres is going to be far superior than, for example, Focus RS with fat tyres.
2) Directing the torque: This applies particularly on roads with camber. With FWD you can point the torque where you want it, so on a standard cambered road (high in the middle and low at the edges) in snow you'd steer towards the centre of the road slightly to stop yourself slipping down the camber. A RWD car can't do that.
3) As others have mentioned, tyres make a massive difference, and that applies to stopping as well as going (so all layouts will benefit from them). In the sort of snow we get round here (typically 10 to 20cm for a few weeks a year at most), my FE/RWD car is fine on winter tyres for normal commuting use and I've never been stuck anywhere in it (that includes untreated and un-driven on lanes). For the other 50 weeks of the year I have a car that has superior traction to FE/FWD due to the reasons listed above. In other words, you can make the worst layout for snow liveable with in snow by putting the right tyres on, and then enjoy the layout for the rest of the year when it's not snowing.
Three other things worth mentioning:
1) Pressure put down on the road: a car with skinny tyres is going to give superior traction and grip than a car with fat tyres. A base spec Ka with skinny tyres is going to be far superior than, for example, Focus RS with fat tyres.
2) Directing the torque: This applies particularly on roads with camber. With FWD you can point the torque where you want it, so on a standard cambered road (high in the middle and low at the edges) in snow you'd steer towards the centre of the road slightly to stop yourself slipping down the camber. A RWD car can't do that.
3) As others have mentioned, tyres make a massive difference, and that applies to stopping as well as going (so all layouts will benefit from them). In the sort of snow we get round here (typically 10 to 20cm for a few weeks a year at most), my FE/RWD car is fine on winter tyres for normal commuting use and I've never been stuck anywhere in it (that includes untreated and un-driven on lanes). For the other 50 weeks of the year I have a car that has superior traction to FE/FWD due to the reasons listed above. In other words, you can make the worst layout for snow liveable with in snow by putting the right tyres on, and then enjoy the layout for the rest of the year when it's not snowing.
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 7th October 18:49
RobM77 said:
A strange question without a simple answer. What matters in a slippery situation where not much acceleration (and therefore weight transfer) can be generated is which layout has the most mass over the driven wheels at rest. As soon as you start accelerating (i.e. wet or dry tarmac - no snow or mud etc), it's all about which layout has the most mass over the end that gets the 'weight' over it under acceleration, but if there's not much accelerating going on, as with snow, then you're better off with a static weight distribution that puts weight over the driven wheels at rest, and the 2WD layouts that give that are: FWD/FE & RWD/RE firstly, and then next down from that would be ME/RWD and then finally the worst layout, FE/RWD.
But that's not all - try pushing a rope.nonuts said:
HertsBiker said:
Let's not worry about tyres yet..
That's all well and good, but the answer is either the correct tyres or AWD.McWigglebum4th said:
300bhp/ton said:
Nigel Worc's said:
FWD .......the end !
lol
Look at how the op has asked the question.
I love my rwd BMW, in every condition except snow, I grew up driving rwd, most cars are front engined, so fwd will be the best, in snow, most of the time.
300bhp/ton said:
Why not AWD??
If you can't drive, then people seem to prefer FWD. However given the choice I much prefer RWD with an LSD over FWD with an open diff.
Then you are pretty much on your own. FWD has always given superior traction in snow because the weight is biased over the driven wheels, something that even the most expensive LSD can not achieve.If you can't drive, then people seem to prefer FWD. However given the choice I much prefer RWD with an LSD over FWD with an open diff.
Nigel Worc's said:
Do I need to ?
I had presumed that Mr Wigglebum was questioning the reason for 300bhp's trolling. The answer being that in his world anything that isn't RWD, and preferably American, can not be the correct answer.Edited by Mr2Mike on Monday 7th October 18:55
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff