Advice regarding brake pad failure

[Nickccc]

Hello, my girlfriend recently bought a second hand car from a local dealer, (well established large showroom), I didn't go along to inspect the car as she wanted to deal with it.
The car came with a fresh MOT and is still covered by a one month warranty.
Now we took the car for a run over the weekend, it felt ok no nasty knocks leaks or anything like that, however after about two hundred and fifty miles a total of four fifty since the MOT the brake pads were completely shot, metal on metal grinding.
Now I have driven a fair few different vehicles on and off track, and I have never once experienced a freshly MOT'd car that can destroy its brake pads in such a short space of time.

She has spoken to the garage, the manager has indicated that the MOT report states that the pads had fifty percent life left in them four hundred and fifty miles ago.
Now personally I think this is rubbish, there is no way those brake pads were inspected, I reckon they just stuck an MOT on the car so as to sell it on, she dropped it in to her usual trusted mechanic today for a once over.

What would you do? The garage are clearly back peddling, I wondered if VOSA would be interested in this as it isn't right to pass a car which clearly needed pads, they are completely shot, no pad material at all. And according to the manager that has happened from fifty percent material in four hundred and fifty miles, which would suggest he thinks pads go from new to knackered in nine hundred miles.
They are offering to replace the pads for free, but I don't know, they haven't played fair and potentially put an unsafe car on the road. She likes the car, I guess there is no way they are going to come clean about the MOT or lack of inspection. Anyway over to you. Oh by the way the car was advertised in the classified section on this site.
Thanks in advance for any advice received.

[scott15]

I'd stop trying to play the whole 'blame' game, and replace the damn pads.

I done 250 miles on a set of new brake pads on my Passat, before they were down to metal on the drivers front wheel. The friction part of the brake pad had cracked and broken off. It must have been something to do with the factory or something i guess.

I bought a new set and fitted them. What else are you going to do?

Also, brake pads can be down to the metal for all the mot tester may know, as long as they pass the brake efficiency test, then the car wont fail on the brakes. Most wheels you cant see how much 'meat' is left on the pads, has the tester meant to take each wheel off to check for you?

Just replace the pads.

[ADEuk]

Nickccc said:

MOT report states that the pads had fifty percent life left

That's bks for a start. No MOT station would ever say how much percentage is left in a brake pad.How thick are they when new?
In all fairness most cars require you to remove a wheel in order to properly measure/ assess how much life is in a brake pad. As MOT stations are NOT ALLOWED to remove any wheels/trims/etc it very rare that a car fails on brake pads. They should have been picked up on the pre-sales check though. So blame the dealer not the MOT station

[saaby93]

yep let the dealer give you new pads
The MOT centre will have checked there is a reasonable amount of pad and that they stop ok
The material can come away on the pads but check the discs to see if they have anything to do with it.

[Nickccc]

I'm not looking to blame anyone, I am questioning how a car with knackered brakes can pass an MOT, and no brakes down to the metal will not pass an MOT they should be visually inspected.
I can change them myself without a problem, but what else has been overlooked, she has saved hard for this car and I don't want it to be the sort of car you are constantly throwing money at.
Thanks for your reply though.

[N7GTX]

The problems with reporting to VOSA are the various time scales involved and you may find they are not interested. However, you can still complain and no doubt the test station will get a visit some time in the near future.
https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/problems-with-yo...

If the garage is a member of the Good Garage Scheme or other similar, they have a free adjudication process for unhappy customers.

[Nickccc]

Just to add the dealers and the MOT station are one in the same.

[scott15]

Just get them to replace the pads, an be done with it.

Its hardly that the car is unreliable, they are wear and tear items.

Hope you are happy with the car once the pads are sorted!

[snapdragon69]

MOT testers are to test the brakes for efficiency, not for wear.
They cannot remove any part of the car, so they can't remove the wheel to look at the pads.
Some garages do pre-MOT tests, which check these things prior to the test, such as a free 100 point healthcheck in order to find extra work, but they are not part of the MOT.

It is unlikely that a pad will be fully down to the metal unless the friction has become debonded which could happen at any time if they are poor quality, have overheated, or parked in floodwater.

When the pads reach end of life, for about another 1000, miles, the lip on the edge of the disc will cut through the friction and into the backing plate causing a scraping noise during braking, but they usually continue to be servicable during this period but will deteriorate and get noisier.

[Andyjc86]

Could you see the brakes were knackered through the spokes of the wheels, or did you have to take the wheels off to look?

[Nickccc]

scott15 said:

Just get them to replace the pads, an be done with it.

Its hardly that the car is unreliable, they are wear and tear items.

Hope you are happy with the car once the pads are sorted!

Yeah I'm with you, and I guess that's what will happen as long as the trusted mechanic doesn't find anything else.
Shouldn't be surprised really they are car dealers after all, just would have been nice if they had properly inspected the car, and not bullstted about the 50% pad material left when it was inspected! which it clearly wasn't.

[chris182]

If you have a sticky caliper it is possible to destroy a set of pads in fairly short order. Also some pads cannot be seen with the wheels on and the MOT tester will not remove the wheels to inspect them if this is the case. Given how cheap and easy pads are to replace, just change them and be done with it.

[m0isty]

AFAIK the minimum brake pad thickness required for an MOT pass is only 1.5mm. So yes, a car can easily pass a test even though it very obviously needs its pads replaced!

[Nickccc]

That may well be correct, but that would show as an advisory on the MOT paperwork, which it doesn't.

[x type]

snapdragon69 said:

MOT testers are to test the brakes for efficiency, not for wear.

Not according to this site section f

http://www.motuk.co.uk/mcmanual_320.htm

[SMcP114]

Life's too short to go running back to the dealer, reporting to VOSA or whatever else. Just replace the pads.

[E30M3SE]

m0isty said:

AFAIK the minimum brake pad thickness required for an MOT pass is only 1.5mm. So yes, a car can easily pass a test even though it very obviously needs its pads replaced!

Correct, about the thickness of a 5p piece.

[Nickccc]

SMcP114 said:

Life's too short to go running back to the dealer, reporting to VOSA or whatever else. Just replace the pads.

Sure, but it's the way it has been dealt with.
If they had said " madam please bring the car in and we will replace the pads at the earliest opportunity , I am sorry your new car hasn't met yours and our expectations" then all good, however they ( the dealers) have reaffirmed the old stereotype of dodgy geezers, who can't be honest, and who have tried to fob off a lady, as they presume females know f all about cars.
It's not much hassle for them to do the right thing, and if people don't complain then someone else will get shafted.
If you get served terrible food, you complain right? So why not get the situation sorted out to your satisfaction.
Maybe you think it's not worth the hassle that's your prerogative, as is it mine to make sure they do the right thing, and also to make sure the rest of the car is safe and not in need of work.
Thanks to you all for taking the time to reply.

[Stuartggray]

Nickccc said:

SMcP114 said:

Life's too short to go running back to the dealer, reporting to VOSA or whatever else. Just replace the pads.

Sure, but it's the way it has been dealt with.
If they had said " madam please bring the car in and we will replace the pads at the earliest opportunity , I am sorry your new car hasn't met yours and our expectations" then all good, however they ( the dealers) have reaffirmed the old stereotype of dodgy geezers, who can't be honest, and who have tried to fob off a lady, as they presume females know f all about cars.
It's not much hassle for them to do the right thing, and if people don't complain then someone else will get shafted.
If you get served terrible food, you complain right? So why not get the situation sorted out to your satisfaction.
Maybe you think it's not worth the hassle that's your prerogative, as is it mine to make sure they do the right thing, and also to make sure the rest of the car is safe and not in need of work.
Thanks to you all for taking the time to reply.

Quite right OP. Fully on your side. Ignore the naysayers, they are just jealous they didn't have the balls when they bought their cars with problems.
I bought an old V70 and had new control arms, discs and pads fitted to get it up to my expectation of the price the dealer wanted. They agreed without a murmur.

[morgrp]

All stty dealers with too much bullst on the tyres do this - I bought Mrs Morgrp's A2 from one - with the old "Full service and MOT and want it to be safe for your family blah blah blah " strap line from the overly smooth and clueless asshole selling me the car. I saw through this st and didn't care as I'd been looking for a while and wanted the car so bought it anyway for the right price knowing it would need sorting

First thing I did when I got it was put in my workshop and ran over it with a fine-tooth comb - Full engine service required (claimed it had been serviced) New rear discs, pads and fitting kit needed (would fail MOT), adjusted the headlight (MOT fail) and replaced the wiper blade (MOT fail) and front tyres that were delaminating on the inside edge (MOT fail)

Fair enough, I knew it needed work but what scares me is someone not knowing cars buying it and assuming its safe to run it for another year - risking not being able to stop or worse still a high speed blowout.

I gurantee the garage never even saw the car - bet they have a deal going with the garage whereby they just print MOTs for the cars they sell and give it to the dealer.