RE: Ari Vatanen on the Manx: Time for Coffee?
Wednesday 16th October 2013
This well known video was going to feature in our 40 years of the WRC feature until we realised this was Ari Vatanen not in an Escort, but an Opel Manta. But it had left such an indelible impression it just had to feature at some point.
Ari Vatanen on the Manx: Time for Coffee?
In case you thought just the bikers gave it their all on the Isle of Man, see here
You have hopefully surmised from the screengrab that the onboard clip involves some very, very committed driving. It's unbelievably frantic in fact, to the point where some of the footage almost appears in fast forward. Dabs (and huge big armfuls) of opposite lock are thrown at the wheel instantaneously, gear changes are flashed through and the scenery vanishes at an indecent rate.
The first two minutes make for scintillating viewing, then comes the 'Dear God' from co-drive Terry Harryman. The car gets hugely out of shape approaching a narrow gate, and is literally just recovered before what would have been a huge crash. It's a real heart-in-mouth movement.
They pick up a puncture as a result, but still the dedication to driving at maximum attack continues unabated. It really is a lesson in balls-out rallying, and superb viewing.
Discussion
t!!!!!
ellisd82 said:
Love the "Flat right maybe" lol. Would like a bit more certainty. Never heard that before or the "Absolute left 200". Whats with the Absolutes and maybes?
Great Video. Takes me back to my child hood watching them from a grass bank.
It's descriptive calling as opposed to the regular number system that you generally get today. I can't see the video at work, but he might be calling it off a map hence the 'maybe' bit. Co-drivers disclaimer! Great Video. Takes me back to my child hood watching them from a grass bank.
ETA, I've just seen, it's notes, in which case during the recce they probably weren't sure if it was flat or not!
Cyder said:
ellisd82 said:
Love the "Flat right maybe" lol. Would like a bit more certainty. Never heard that before or the "Absolute left 200". Whats with the Absolutes and maybes?
Great Video. Takes me back to my child hood watching them from a grass bank.
It's descriptive calling as opposed to the regular number system that you generally get today. I can't see the video at work, but he might be calling it off a map hence the 'maybe' bit. Co-drivers disclaimer! Great Video. Takes me back to my child hood watching them from a grass bank.
ETA, I've just seen, it's notes, in which case during the recce they probably weren't sure if it was flat or not!
Awesome driving and a great save. Shame he ended up with a puncture though, would've been good to see the rest of the stage.
Rally drivers and co-drivers do develop their own "shorthand" as a subtle extension of the usual noting formats. I'd like to interview the co-driver here to be sure, but, I surmise that the "maybe" tacked on to some of the pace notes is added when it is wet or damp conditions, for example. It may well be that they reccied these stages in the dry, then found come rally day that it was wet. Corners you could plan to take flat in the dry probably aren't so in the wet..
The other more sobering comment is that long stretches of that stage appear to have no marshalling resources on them at all. So, if you do have a big "off" , it could be quite a while before you'd get any attention & help..
The other more sobering comment is that long stretches of that stage appear to have no marshalling resources on them at all. So, if you do have a big "off" , it could be quite a while before you'd get any attention & help..
If any nay-sayers wonder why some of us prefer this era of rallying, Touring Cars or F1, I think that this explains it wonderfully.
Absolute andenaline-pumping action, these guys were true heroes.
The perfect antidote to the current F1 / BTCC / WRC where all the cars, and drivers, look alike.....
Absolute andenaline-pumping action, these guys were true heroes.
The perfect antidote to the current F1 / BTCC / WRC where all the cars, and drivers, look alike.....
Agree with the above, anyone competing in motorsport has a talent most of us do not but that clip again proves that it's the Rally drivers imho that have bigger kahuna's than any of the F1, BTCC drivers etc.
It almost too much to comprehend how they can drive that quickly on changing road surfaces inches away from imminent wipe-out.
It almost too much to comprehend how they can drive that quickly on changing road surfaces inches away from imminent wipe-out.
from what I remember is this the manta 400 , RWD ? I had a Manta GTE that was a handful in the wet, if this rally car was only RWD I don't know how they managed to get the car round the bends in the damp and the puncture. you could see him fighting the steering near the end even on the long straights, it looked very fast
I sometimes use "Maybe", usually for a corner that is half way between the described corner, simply due to traction/slippery surface etc. Also I guess "Maybe" is a little bit like "Plus" and "Minus" are used today... a "3 Left Plus" written "3 L +" for me would mean it's little bit more than a 3 but not as much as a 4... if a little more caution is needed but not quite a 4 then obviously it would be a "4 L -"
But there are huge differences between drivers and how they use similar statements... I know of someone that uses Plus and Minus to describe a tightening or opening corner...
I once got a look at notes for Alistair McRae and Peta Solberg for the same stage, given by the same co-driver, it was remarkable the difference and quantity of instructions between the 2 drivers...
As for "Absolute", I might start using that one myself... for me a "1 Right" is a flat right but occasionally when you've not had a chance to recce at a decent speed sometimes that "1" corner can turn into a "2" so I guess "Absolute" would fit in well to describer a true no doubt flat out corner no matter what...
Which is good cause it leaves my favorite call using the word "Flat" well alone... "Flat Over Crest"
But there are huge differences between drivers and how they use similar statements... I know of someone that uses Plus and Minus to describe a tightening or opening corner...
I once got a look at notes for Alistair McRae and Peta Solberg for the same stage, given by the same co-driver, it was remarkable the difference and quantity of instructions between the 2 drivers...
As for "Absolute", I might start using that one myself... for me a "1 Right" is a flat right but occasionally when you've not had a chance to recce at a decent speed sometimes that "1" corner can turn into a "2" so I guess "Absolute" would fit in well to describer a true no doubt flat out corner no matter what...
Which is good cause it leaves my favorite call using the word "Flat" well alone... "Flat Over Crest"
tomoleeds said:
from what I remember is this the manta 400 , RWD ? I had a Manta GTE that was a handful in the wet, if this rally car was only RWD I don't know how they managed to get the car round the bends in the damp and the puncture. you could see him fighting the steering near the end even on the long straights, it looked very fast
Deffo RWD
Amazing video... haven't watched it for a while, but always leaves me amazed at Ari's skill and commitment.
'Maybe' - Depends how much speed you're carrying from the previous corner and how good your line is... if your exit was poor it's flat, if your exit was good it might be flat if you're line is perfect, but best have a little lift otherwise.
ellisd82 said:
Love the "Flat right maybe" lol. Would like a bit more certainty. Never heard that before or the "Absolute left 200". Whats with the Absolutes and maybes?
'Absolute' - 100% no doubt flat at any speed/gear.'Maybe' - Depends how much speed you're carrying from the previous corner and how good your line is... if your exit was poor it's flat, if your exit was good it might be flat if you're line is perfect, but best have a little lift otherwise.
Charger500 said:
Also I guess "Maybe" is a little bit like "Plus" and "Minus" are used today... a "3 Left Plus" written "3 L +" for me would mean it's little bit more than a 3 but not as much as a 4... if a little more caution is needed but not quite a 4 then obviously it would be a "4 L -"
I'm sure I remember seeing a program a good few years back where the driver/co-driver used + and - as a descriptor for being on or off the throttle in the corner.Edited by Chris Stott on Wednesday 16th October 18:08
Edited by Chris Stott on Wednesday 16th October 18:10
Oooh, I've seen this so many times, but never at such a nice resolution. Definitely bookmarking this as a YouTube favourite.
Beyond the obvious "how the hell did he catch that?" moment, two things strike me:
(i) How fast Vatanen could drive after he punctured;
(ii) How Terry Harryman can sit in the co-driver's seat at that speed, especially after the puncture. I'd be ad-libbing a new set of pace notes: "slow, slow right, very slow left, dead slow 100 followed by really slow right, maybe really really slow, just stop here mate, yeah, at the bus stop would be grand".
Beyond the obvious "how the hell did he catch that?" moment, two things strike me:
(i) How fast Vatanen could drive after he punctured;
(ii) How Terry Harryman can sit in the co-driver's seat at that speed, especially after the puncture. I'd be ad-libbing a new set of pace notes: "slow, slow right, very slow left, dead slow 100 followed by really slow right, maybe really really slow, just stop here mate, yeah, at the bus stop would be grand".
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