Has anyone driven a diesel car with "character"?
Discussion
Before we get too far this isn't a diesel hating thread but has anyone driven a diesel that can be bought with the heart as well as the head?
I understand the obvious benefits. Better mpg, lower CO2, better residuals etc and certainly in anything bigger than a Golf, you would need a very good reason to not buy diesel.
I have had several diesel company cars (VW mainly) and also a Rover Streetwise diesel! By far my nicest company car was a mkV VW Golf 2.0 GT TDI. It was a great all-rounder, had all the options that I would want myself (heated seats, CD changer, dual-zone climate control etc) and in everyday conditions was probably also quicker than the 12 year old Corrado VR6 that I also owned at the time. A definite 8 out of 10 car then but for sheer desirability, the 12 year old Corrado still had it and when I had the chance to drive a colleagues mkV Golf GTI, my TDI paled into insignificance!
I have bought two diesels in my time. A Polo 1.4 TDI because this engine was by far better than the 1.2 or 1.4 petrol but I never loved it. The other was an old Mercedes C-Class Estate with the 2.5TD engine. I just needed a cheap car quickly and it happened to be available at the right time (would probably have bought it even if it was a petrol) but in retrospect, this was probably a better engine for the car than the 1.8 or 2.0 petrol that I might have bought. Very good mpg too!
I am also happy to admit that I would have kept my mk4 Golf had I opted for the TDI rather than the awful 2.0 petrol in the GTi. However, I still find it difficult to get excited about diesels.
In threads citing the perfect all-rounder people often come up with a BMW 335d/535d or a Range Rover V8 diesel. Other than fuel costs (I know these cars also have decent power), is there any other reason why these are better than the petrol equivalent? The appeal of BMWs to me has always been the straight-six petrol engines and a Range Rover with a Jaguar V8 is massively appealing!
Two diesels that have always interested me are the 2.4 5-pot that used to be available in the Alfa Romeo 159 and the Subaru Boxer diesel engine available in the Legacy. In the absence of a Busso V6 or turbocharged flat 4/flat 6, do these diesel cars have what it takes to get the pulse racing?
I would be genuinely interested to hear of any driving or ownership experiences, as particularly the BMW diesels seem to be well liked by their owners. I know diesel makes sense in many cases but I am still struggling to get excited by them!
I understand the obvious benefits. Better mpg, lower CO2, better residuals etc and certainly in anything bigger than a Golf, you would need a very good reason to not buy diesel.
I have had several diesel company cars (VW mainly) and also a Rover Streetwise diesel! By far my nicest company car was a mkV VW Golf 2.0 GT TDI. It was a great all-rounder, had all the options that I would want myself (heated seats, CD changer, dual-zone climate control etc) and in everyday conditions was probably also quicker than the 12 year old Corrado VR6 that I also owned at the time. A definite 8 out of 10 car then but for sheer desirability, the 12 year old Corrado still had it and when I had the chance to drive a colleagues mkV Golf GTI, my TDI paled into insignificance!
I have bought two diesels in my time. A Polo 1.4 TDI because this engine was by far better than the 1.2 or 1.4 petrol but I never loved it. The other was an old Mercedes C-Class Estate with the 2.5TD engine. I just needed a cheap car quickly and it happened to be available at the right time (would probably have bought it even if it was a petrol) but in retrospect, this was probably a better engine for the car than the 1.8 or 2.0 petrol that I might have bought. Very good mpg too!
I am also happy to admit that I would have kept my mk4 Golf had I opted for the TDI rather than the awful 2.0 petrol in the GTi. However, I still find it difficult to get excited about diesels.
In threads citing the perfect all-rounder people often come up with a BMW 335d/535d or a Range Rover V8 diesel. Other than fuel costs (I know these cars also have decent power), is there any other reason why these are better than the petrol equivalent? The appeal of BMWs to me has always been the straight-six petrol engines and a Range Rover with a Jaguar V8 is massively appealing!
Two diesels that have always interested me are the 2.4 5-pot that used to be available in the Alfa Romeo 159 and the Subaru Boxer diesel engine available in the Legacy. In the absence of a Busso V6 or turbocharged flat 4/flat 6, do these diesel cars have what it takes to get the pulse racing?
I would be genuinely interested to hear of any driving or ownership experiences, as particularly the BMW diesels seem to be well liked by their owners. I know diesel makes sense in many cases but I am still struggling to get excited by them!
123D M/Sport Coupe.
Brilliant engine, smooth, punchy, big rev range, would pull hard to 500rpm and even sounded pleasant doing it.
I loved it but it went quickly a little too easily, often found myself at bigger speeds than I thought and once, as a passenger in it, I thought we were doing about 110 when a glance at the speedo showed 145.
Brilliant engine, smooth, punchy, big rev range, would pull hard to 500rpm and even sounded pleasant doing it.
I loved it but it went quickly a little too easily, often found myself at bigger speeds than I thought and once, as a passenger in it, I thought we were doing about 110 when a glance at the speedo showed 145.
We used to have a Vectra v6 diesel as a police persuit car (circa 2009) , they were not too bad to drive, certainly better than the 'reliable' BMW's we had. I can never remember a single shift in years they were both running at the same time. The Vectra ran 24 hours a day 7 days a week and was still going when I left. In fact there was an old Astra Diesel that outlasted everything else, even in 2008 it still had the white livery and the rest had been silver for years. Must have had that car about 10 years again being used 24/7 at full chat! rubbish to drive though
I find our 335d has plenty of character to it. Great chassis, well made, can easily be flung around at naughty speeds yet it also a comfy place to sit with space for the kids and the dog. Yes it's dieselly at idle but unlike many that love to point that out in their anti diesel rants, I tend not to sit there idling the car - I drive it. And when pushed, it makes a pleasant growl that just sounds powerful - which it is.
It's also super subtle in SE spec and slips under all but the geekiest radar.
I am after petrol next but I still like this diesel a lot.
Conversely our VW California has a modern diesel with fairly decent numbers (bi-turbo, 180bhp, 295lbs-ft) that pulls the big lump along pretty well but it just sounds SO grim! Luckily Calis are very well sound insulated!
It's also super subtle in SE spec and slips under all but the geekiest radar.
I am after petrol next but I still like this diesel a lot.
Conversely our VW California has a modern diesel with fairly decent numbers (bi-turbo, 180bhp, 295lbs-ft) that pulls the big lump along pretty well but it just sounds SO grim! Luckily Calis are very well sound insulated!
cheddar said:
123D M/Sport Coupe.
Brilliant engine, smooth, punchy, big rev range, would pull hard to 500rpm and even sounded pleasant doing it.
I loved it but it went quickly a little too easily, often found myself at bigger speeds than I thought and once, as a passenger in it, I thought we were doing about 110 when a glance at the speedo showed 145.
N47 feels very Agricultural, I have to live with one every day...The powerband is though much nicer than the 143 and 177 versions..Brilliant engine, smooth, punchy, big rev range, would pull hard to 500rpm and even sounded pleasant doing it.
I loved it but it went quickly a little too easily, often found myself at bigger speeds than I thought and once, as a passenger in it, I thought we were doing about 110 when a glance at the speedo showed 145.
cheddar said:
123D M/Sport Coupe.
Brilliant engine, smooth, punchy, big rev range, would pull hard to 500rpm and even sounded pleasant doing it.
I loved it but it went quickly a little too easily, often found myself at bigger speeds than I thought and once, as a passenger in it, I thought we were doing about 110 when a glance at the speedo showed 145.
500rpm? Brilliant engine, smooth, punchy, big rev range, would pull hard to 500rpm and even sounded pleasant doing it.
I loved it but it went quickly a little too easily, often found myself at bigger speeds than I thought and once, as a passenger in it, I thought we were doing about 110 when a glance at the speedo showed 145.
edo said:
640d. Cake. Eat it.
I sort of get this, but I'd find that every morning when I started it up, I'd be wishing I'd bought a 650i. Blah, blah, blah enough torque to pull out tree stumps, blah blah can get to Nice on a tank of fuel, blah blah 25p a year to tax, blah blah etc.But it still sounds like my neighbours van when I start it.
Put it this way - if a diesel cost the same as the petrol in every single way - purchase, running etc - would you still buy the diesel?
Not many cars I'd think "yes" to on that score.
The old "can't afford petrol" argument is utterly retarded. Many prefer the way a good diesel drives. And clattery on start up? So is an E60 M5. If all you do is idle your car, you're not doing it right.
Rev a good diesel hard and the sound is different but still good.
The old arguments always bubble; a good diesel is a decent motor, so is so good petrol. Yet there are many cr4p petrols and diesels too.
It's hard for many empty headed "look how hardcore I am" PHers to understand but someone buying a 335d/640d/350CDI/3.0 TDI/TDV8 can afford a petrol; but they CHOOSE a diesel.
Rev a good diesel hard and the sound is different but still good.
The old arguments always bubble; a good diesel is a decent motor, so is so good petrol. Yet there are many cr4p petrols and diesels too.
It's hard for many empty headed "look how hardcore I am" PHers to understand but someone buying a 335d/640d/350CDI/3.0 TDI/TDV8 can afford a petrol; but they CHOOSE a diesel.
Vladimir said:
The old "can't afford petrol" argument is utterly retarded.
Well it is because I don't think anybody is making it. The equivalent diesel typically costs more to buy & needs servicing more often. For many people, diesel is the wrong choice. I do about 9k miles in a year, mainly short journeys so for me a diesel would be pointless. EGR issues aside, it wouldn't get warm enough to get anywhere near its efficient temperature. We'll all know someone who drives a diesel for doing the school run / popping to Tesco etc.
I have had a couple of diesels - a Cherokee and an E36 325. The diesel suited the Cherokee and served a purpose in the E36. Not what I'd call characterful though.
I was genuinely blown away with our old 330d it sounded gutsy from inside & even sounded good outside under load but you can't escape the tickover side of things & that's the only thing I am not keen on its just a uninspiring noise but I bet a 335d/535d/640d must be epic on the performance front.
I understand why some people prefer diesels to drive too as the torque is available to use in everyday situations & my M3 has over 400bhp which is great but nothing happens until 5000rpm so by then all your powerful diesels have left you for dead & I've experienced this a few times.
I understand why some people prefer diesels to drive too as the torque is available to use in everyday situations & my M3 has over 400bhp which is great but nothing happens until 5000rpm so by then all your powerful diesels have left you for dead & I've experienced this a few times.
Land Rover Defender 90 Station Wagon!
Flippin brilliant fun and more character than Jack Whitehall.
I know that is not what the OP was driving at but hey, it was a diesel and it was a hoot to drive.
They are also very green, in that the they are probably one of the most bio-degradable cars out there!
Flippin brilliant fun and more character than Jack Whitehall.
I know that is not what the OP was driving at but hey, it was a diesel and it was a hoot to drive.
They are also very green, in that the they are probably one of the most bio-degradable cars out there!
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