Winter Tyres - How long to bed in / any problems?
Discussion
The Michelin Pilot Sport 3's on my car have just run out of tread after 20,000 miles in the last 5 months (fronts had plenty left but rears had, had it) so I thought I'd put a set of Winter tyres on, the thinking being that they'll probably wear out by end of March and then back onto summer tyres for the summer.
So on Friday night I had 4 brand new Kuhmo KW27's fitted recommended by the garage and seem to have decent reviews.
Not my first choice, but the Continental TS830 P's that I have fitted to my wife's car were £230 more for the set and I've had some major house bills lately so thought I'd save the money, especially as only me in the car, not the wife and kids...
Anyway the guy fitting them told me they would need "bedding in" and should be fine within 50 - 100 miles.
300 miles later and they can only be described as terrible. Traction control light flickers on constantly even under light acceleration. Car seems to tram-line on the motorway and under steer on roundabouts and feels vague and light on the steering. Any provocation of the throttle results in permanent traction control and very little progress. TC lit up in 4th gear on the M40 this morning!
So bad on Sunday (admittedly after only 50 miles) that on a steep wet, leaf covered hill I thought I was going to come to a complete stop.
Car is an E46 330d 6spd manual.
Tyres as detailed on the door pillars sticker are;
Fronts 225/45/17
Rears 245/40/17
I have checked pressures and they are correct.
So have I made an expensive mistake or do they just need more time to wear in?
Has anyone else had similar problems with winter tyres?
Are they doing this because they are Kuhmo or because they are Winter tyres or something more serious?
Haven't had these issues with my wife's car but then it is an automatic, 4x4 driven sedately, and had been on the car for 2 months before I drove it...
I can't live with them if they are going to be like this all year, but do I go back to the Michelin tyres that I've been very impressed with and use a 4x4 for adverse weather, or buy the Continentals and hope they are better.
Any thoughts / advice appreciated.
So on Friday night I had 4 brand new Kuhmo KW27's fitted recommended by the garage and seem to have decent reviews.
Not my first choice, but the Continental TS830 P's that I have fitted to my wife's car were £230 more for the set and I've had some major house bills lately so thought I'd save the money, especially as only me in the car, not the wife and kids...
Anyway the guy fitting them told me they would need "bedding in" and should be fine within 50 - 100 miles.
300 miles later and they can only be described as terrible. Traction control light flickers on constantly even under light acceleration. Car seems to tram-line on the motorway and under steer on roundabouts and feels vague and light on the steering. Any provocation of the throttle results in permanent traction control and very little progress. TC lit up in 4th gear on the M40 this morning!
So bad on Sunday (admittedly after only 50 miles) that on a steep wet, leaf covered hill I thought I was going to come to a complete stop.
Car is an E46 330d 6spd manual.
Tyres as detailed on the door pillars sticker are;
Fronts 225/45/17
Rears 245/40/17
I have checked pressures and they are correct.
So have I made an expensive mistake or do they just need more time to wear in?
Has anyone else had similar problems with winter tyres?
Are they doing this because they are Kuhmo or because they are Winter tyres or something more serious?
Haven't had these issues with my wife's car but then it is an automatic, 4x4 driven sedately, and had been on the car for 2 months before I drove it...
I can't live with them if they are going to be like this all year, but do I go back to the Michelin tyres that I've been very impressed with and use a 4x4 for adverse weather, or buy the Continentals and hope they are better.
Any thoughts / advice appreciated.
I've just put some Nokian WRA3s (V rated 'sporty' winters)on my E39 525 diesel which is remapped, so still less power than your car, and to celebrate I did some full bore standing starts from the traffic lights. The traction control light didn't come on at all and the car drives fine after doing 70ish miles.
I don't know much about the tyres you've chosen but it sounds like they aren't upto much.
Just read the replies- it's been between 7 and 12 degrees here.
Should add: 225/55/16s all round.
I don't know much about the tyres you've chosen but it sounds like they aren't upto much.
Just read the replies- it's been between 7 and 12 degrees here.
Should add: 225/55/16s all round.
Edited by Motorrad on Monday 11th November 15:32
onlynik said:
I guess it depends on where you are, but I was in some snow yesterday.
Yeah, I read M40 in the OP and so assumed South! From my previous experience of winters I'd say that wet conditions in +5degree temperatures are not exactly their strong point. The car will feel under rubbered (due to the snow gaps in the tread blocks) and in warmer weather the tread blocks move around quite a lot.The Curn said:
Yes agreed but my old tyres were on the limit so I had to make the jump one way or the other!
Do you think this is what's making them horrible?
Yes, I get the same symptoms on our Saab 9-3 estate when running winter tyres. When the temperature is above 10c, I just drive very sedately. Was going to fit them this weekend but didn't get around to it. Driving at lunchtime today through Bristol it was 15c !Do you think this is what's making them horrible?
I really can't understand the few that insist on driving all year with cold weather tyres.
essIII said:
Yeah, I read M40 in the OP and so assumed South! From my previous experience of winters I'd say that wet conditions in +5degree temperatures are not exactly their strong point. The car will feel under rubbered (due to the snow gaps in the tread blocks) and in warmer weather the tread blocks move around quite a lot.
So is that the same on all Winters or just these Kuhmo's??Have to say I haven't experienced on my wife's car but not sure if this is because of the car or the rubber?
I used to leave winter tyres on my car year round.
In the summer they felt a bit odd and I'd sometimes wheel spin if I pushed hard.
But for normal driving you wouldn't notice the difference.
I can imagine you might get a bit less traction - but certainly not like you talk about.
In fact - the only time I had can experience like that was when a garage fitted some very old 'new' tyres to my car and the rubber had 'gone off' for want of a better phrase.
Check the dot codes and see how old they are.
In the summer they felt a bit odd and I'd sometimes wheel spin if I pushed hard.
But for normal driving you wouldn't notice the difference.
I can imagine you might get a bit less traction - but certainly not like you talk about.
In fact - the only time I had can experience like that was when a garage fitted some very old 'new' tyres to my car and the rubber had 'gone off' for want of a better phrase.
Check the dot codes and see how old they are.
The Curn said:
So is that the same on all Winters or just these Kuhmo's??
Have to say I haven't experienced on my wife's car but not sure if this is because of the car or the rubber?
I've never noticed it on snow, winter or all season tyres.Have to say I haven't experienced on my wife's car but not sure if this is because of the car or the rubber?
I had a 6.5l v8 rwd van on snow tyres, and kept the tyres on well into warm spring and didn't notice anything like the OP is saying.
I guess it might depend on the comparison of what was on before - but the difference shouldn't be that extreme at all.
Snowboy said:
I've googled them.
The tread pattern is heavily siped but not to the extend that snow tyres are.
But, I did find a review saying they need 300 miles to bed in.
It does seem a lit of bedding in though.
Does your garage offer any sort of satisfaction guarantee?
Not sure. I phoned them on Saturday, probably too soon, and he said give it time. I guess I'll have to, but it's making a long journey even more unpleasant. I guess the only saving grace is that doing 200 miles per day, it won't take long to reach a conclusion.The tread pattern is heavily siped but not to the extend that snow tyres are.
But, I did find a review saying they need 300 miles to bed in.
It does seem a lit of bedding in though.
Does your garage offer any sort of satisfaction guarantee?
Winters have huge flappy bits of rubber on them, not solid blocks so they 'bite' into ice, snow and wet roads. They are also very soft. Over 7 degrees C they will feel like you're skating. When I got in the car this morning it was 10.5 degrees C, so I'm not surprised they feel a bit bad.
However, for the five minutes that it will snow in February, you'll be laughing yourself past all the other rear drive sorts when they have to abandon their cars at the side of the road. You pays yer money... etc.
However, for the five minutes that it will snow in February, you'll be laughing yourself past all the other rear drive sorts when they have to abandon their cars at the side of the road. You pays yer money... etc.
MarJay said:
Winters have huge flappy bits of rubber on them, not solid blocks so they 'bite' into ice, snow and wet roads. They are also very soft. Over 7 degrees C they will feel like you're skating. When I got in the car this morning it was 10.5 degrees C, so I'm not surprised they feel a bit bad.
However, for the five minutes that it will snow in February, you'll be laughing yourself past all the other rear drive sorts when they have to abandon their cars at the side of the road. You pays yer money... etc.
Your knowledge of winter tyres is more than a little out of date.However, for the five minutes that it will snow in February, you'll be laughing yourself past all the other rear drive sorts when they have to abandon their cars at the side of the road. You pays yer money... etc.
You have described old fashioned big knobbly snow tyres - but modern winter tyres are quite different.
Snowboy said:
MarJay said:
Winters have huge flappy bits of rubber on them, not solid blocks so they 'bite' into ice, snow and wet roads. They are also very soft. Over 7 degrees C they will feel like you're skating. When I got in the car this morning it was 10.5 degrees C, so I'm not surprised they feel a bit bad.
However, for the five minutes that it will snow in February, you'll be laughing yourself past all the other rear drive sorts when they have to abandon their cars at the side of the road. You pays yer money... etc.
Your knowledge of winter tyres is more than a little out of date.However, for the five minutes that it will snow in February, you'll be laughing yourself past all the other rear drive sorts when they have to abandon their cars at the side of the road. You pays yer money... etc.
You have described old fashioned big knobbly snow tyres - but modern winter tyres are quite different.
On high powered cars they will feel squirmy, especially if loading them up, however thats almost how they feel on ice & snow too so just get used to it. We have a set of KW27's on a Rover 75 & they drive fine, though it wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding let lone break traction on its own
From someone living up in the frozen wastes of Scandinavia and having quite a few seasons behind me now feel qualified to comment even if I'm not a tyre fitter.
Never heard such bulls
t in my life that the tyres will be scrubbed in after 50 miles... more like 300 at a bare minimum!
Were you also given the advice to avoid sharp cornering at high speeds, harsh braking and harsh acceleration? A lane change at 70, fine, but you can't go full tilt on the twisties and especially not on winters with their compounds!
I've never shod mine with Kumhos though so cannot comment on their performance, some here like Vredesteins on the other hand which I thought were OK to the limit of grip but once you exceeded that (and I'm talking about 30 mph on what suddenly became sheet ice, mine were studded to boot), boy were you in trouble. I've had Hankook Icebears on the other hand (Euro compound, you definitely don't need the Nordic compounds in England) and they've been no trouble at all.
Might be way off here, but when fitted were the wheels balanced properly? Even on Linglongs the tyres shouldn't be causing that much pain.
Off to fit my Hakkapeliitta Rs to the V70 and Hakkapeliitta 8 studs to the 208 in the next week or two - we've had our first overnight frost for the season. I'm a paid-up fanboy admittedly but, including their Euro compound stuff, you can't go wrong with Nokians in the winter... trust the natives indeed.
Never heard such bulls
t in my life that the tyres will be scrubbed in after 50 miles... more like 300 at a bare minimum!Were you also given the advice to avoid sharp cornering at high speeds, harsh braking and harsh acceleration? A lane change at 70, fine, but you can't go full tilt on the twisties and especially not on winters with their compounds!
I've never shod mine with Kumhos though so cannot comment on their performance, some here like Vredesteins on the other hand which I thought were OK to the limit of grip but once you exceeded that (and I'm talking about 30 mph on what suddenly became sheet ice, mine were studded to boot), boy were you in trouble. I've had Hankook Icebears on the other hand (Euro compound, you definitely don't need the Nordic compounds in England) and they've been no trouble at all.
Might be way off here, but when fitted were the wheels balanced properly? Even on Linglongs the tyres shouldn't be causing that much pain.
Off to fit my Hakkapeliitta Rs to the V70 and Hakkapeliitta 8 studs to the 208 in the next week or two - we've had our first overnight frost for the season. I'm a paid-up fanboy admittedly but, including their Euro compound stuff, you can't go wrong with Nokians in the winter... trust the natives indeed.
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