VAG missed a niche ?
Discussion
Hard to believe I know what with their 500+ model range or what ever it is.
Due for a change of motor and looking to replace my 5yr old, 90,000 mile A8. It a great car, a sublime mile muncher, super quiet, very comfortable. Yet, switch the suspension to Dynamic, turn on the paddles and unleash the 350bhp V8 and the thing can really hussle. Trouble is it's bloody huge, a bugger to park and the Mrs aways says I should be wearing a cap whilst driving so I look like a chauffeur then she can sit in the back and lord it.
So what I want is an A8 in an A4 body. An S class in a C class shell. But no matter how much you spec the smaller models up they're just not the same as their bigger brothers. Spend a fortune on an A4 and it's still a rep mobile underneath. I've looked at Merc E500's with all the toys but it's still just a tarted up Taxi. The interior is where it's at for me as I spend more time in it than I do looking at it.
The little RR Evoque gets close in concept but it's a little too "fashion " for me. It's got to have been around for at least 3 yrs so someone else has taken the depreciation hit as well.
Any bright idea's ?????
Due for a change of motor and looking to replace my 5yr old, 90,000 mile A8. It a great car, a sublime mile muncher, super quiet, very comfortable. Yet, switch the suspension to Dynamic, turn on the paddles and unleash the 350bhp V8 and the thing can really hussle. Trouble is it's bloody huge, a bugger to park and the Mrs aways says I should be wearing a cap whilst driving so I look like a chauffeur then she can sit in the back and lord it.
So what I want is an A8 in an A4 body. An S class in a C class shell. But no matter how much you spec the smaller models up they're just not the same as their bigger brothers. Spend a fortune on an A4 and it's still a rep mobile underneath. I've looked at Merc E500's with all the toys but it's still just a tarted up Taxi. The interior is where it's at for me as I spend more time in it than I do looking at it.
The little RR Evoque gets close in concept but it's a little too "fashion " for me. It's got to have been around for at least 3 yrs so someone else has taken the depreciation hit as well.
Any bright idea's ?????
The new 5 series is right up there imho, if you choose it in the right colour.
Problem is all interior materials are getting cheaper in quality as prices come down.
Look at a new E Class, now comes with nav, leather, led lights, dab, mdeia interface, comand, sat nav and heated seats as standard, and you can be in a new E220cdi auto for £32k after discount, or £280 a month including vat.
My old man paid more than that for his E280 back in 1990.
Something has to give and to me it seems interior materials are the first to be cut back on.
I couldn't stand the quality of my 2010 E350 interior wise, looked great, but as soon as you touch anything it felt low rent, the 2007 model it replaced was far better.
Same with our 535d vs the earlier E39 530i, the e39 was solid, the 535d was not.
I actually thought that the new A6 was pretty good, the only one that had improved on the previous model, I had a 3.2fsi avant for 18 months and although a nice place to be, I always felt it a little hollow, but that may have been the Audi suspension/chassis?
Problem is all interior materials are getting cheaper in quality as prices come down.
Look at a new E Class, now comes with nav, leather, led lights, dab, mdeia interface, comand, sat nav and heated seats as standard, and you can be in a new E220cdi auto for £32k after discount, or £280 a month including vat.
My old man paid more than that for his E280 back in 1990.
Something has to give and to me it seems interior materials are the first to be cut back on.
I couldn't stand the quality of my 2010 E350 interior wise, looked great, but as soon as you touch anything it felt low rent, the 2007 model it replaced was far better.
Same with our 535d vs the earlier E39 530i, the e39 was solid, the 535d was not.
I actually thought that the new A6 was pretty good, the only one that had improved on the previous model, I had a 3.2fsi avant for 18 months and although a nice place to be, I always felt it a little hollow, but that may have been the Audi suspension/chassis?
I have been thinking that for years. I wanted a city car made by Rolls Royce, i know radford did it in the 60's and BMW Rolls Royce sold some minis. But I wanted citron suspension I want to see the potholes but not feel them, big engine that's silent and effortless, and a nice place to sit in traffic jams. I don't want to be able to see any plastic, I don't want to hear the outside world, I want wilton carpets and alloy indicator stalks. Heated windscreen heated seats and steering wheel please. And that's before the options list.
Major Fallout said:
I have been thinking that for years. I wanted a city car made by Rolls Royce, i know radford did it in the 60's and BMW Rolls Royce sold some minis. But I wanted citron suspension I want to see the potholes but not feel them, big engine that's silent and effortless, and a nice place to sit in traffic jams. I don't want to be able to see any plastic, I don't want to hear the outside world, I want wilton carpets and alloy indicator stalks. Heated windscreen heated seats and steering wheel please. And that's before the options list.
There are some Goodwood 'inspired' MINIs as part of the run out for the current model. Thick pile carpet, RR leather, RR badge on the side 
The Goodwood Mini (albeit a LHD image).....
A Goodwood MCS for sale - http://www.listersbostonmini.co.uk/approved-used-m...
Totally with you on this OP. This is exacty what Mrs Newc wants - a compact waftomatic for city car use. It doesn't exist; you have to compromise on either the size or the waft, irrespective of price.
Small sizes with big engines seem to be exclusively the full on sports models, M3 style, which are not wafty. And there's plenty of choice in the larger chassis of course.
The nearest contenders she found were:
- the mid size Citroens, can't remember the detail but it seemed to be possible to go full waft on the options list. Unfortunately that meant built to order, at something like full price with attendant depreciation, and she just couldn't sign up to the numbers
- the smaller SUVs with lazy engines. Think she looked at the Lexus and one of the LRs. Maybe the Q3 would be viable now ?
- the Volvo S60. This was the closest, but again if you tick all the waft options they still present it more as their sports model rather than a barge.
She bought a Golf.
I suspect that they don't exist even though there is probably a steady demand, because it would play havoc with the price points and marketing plans. If you have, say, an A8 spec A6, then do you price it above the rest of the A6 range, meaning that it's now the halo model instead of the sports editions and does that hit your sports buyer sales. Or if it's cheaper then does that take sales away from your much higher margin A8s ? Tricky. You'd probably need a new model designation, the A4-and-a-half, and is there really enough demand for that.
Small sizes with big engines seem to be exclusively the full on sports models, M3 style, which are not wafty. And there's plenty of choice in the larger chassis of course.
The nearest contenders she found were:
- the mid size Citroens, can't remember the detail but it seemed to be possible to go full waft on the options list. Unfortunately that meant built to order, at something like full price with attendant depreciation, and she just couldn't sign up to the numbers
- the smaller SUVs with lazy engines. Think she looked at the Lexus and one of the LRs. Maybe the Q3 would be viable now ?
- the Volvo S60. This was the closest, but again if you tick all the waft options they still present it more as their sports model rather than a barge.
She bought a Golf.
I suspect that they don't exist even though there is probably a steady demand, because it would play havoc with the price points and marketing plans. If you have, say, an A8 spec A6, then do you price it above the rest of the A6 range, meaning that it's now the halo model instead of the sports editions and does that hit your sports buyer sales. Or if it's cheaper then does that take sales away from your much higher margin A8s ? Tricky. You'd probably need a new model designation, the A4-and-a-half, and is there really enough demand for that.
schmalex said:
Renault used to offer this back in the '90's with the Clio Baccarat. It looked like a really nice place to be for a small, smart city car
Funnily enough a neighbour of mine has just got one of these - big seats & a wooden dash! I'm sure Peugeot did something with the 205 back in the day as well - Goodwood?Harry H said:
Hard to believe I know what with their 500+ model range or what ever it is.
Due for a change of motor and looking to replace my 5yr old, 90,000 mile A8. It a great car, a sublime mile muncher, super quiet, very comfortable. Yet, switch the suspension to Dynamic, turn on the paddles and unleash the 350bhp V8 and the thing can really hussle. Trouble is it's bloody huge, a bugger to park and the Mrs aways says I should be wearing a cap whilst driving so I look like a chauffeur then she can sit in the back and lord it.
So what I want is an A8 in an A4 body. An S class in a C class shell. But no matter how much you spec the smaller models up they're just not the same as their bigger brothers. Spend a fortune on an A4 and it's still a rep mobile underneath. I've looked at Merc E500's with all the toys but it's still just a tarted up Taxi. The interior is where it's at for me as I spend more time in it than I do looking at it.
The little RR Evoque gets close in concept but it's a little too "fashion " for me. It's got to have been around for at least 3 yrs so someone else has taken the depreciation hit as well.
Any bright idea's ?????
In exactly the same situation, we have an 03 3.7 V8 Quattro D3 A8. Had it for a good few years, bought it from Audi Bath on 68,000 miles, now just clocked up 135,000 miles and its being traded in next week. We tried a fair few cars and here's what we found-Due for a change of motor and looking to replace my 5yr old, 90,000 mile A8. It a great car, a sublime mile muncher, super quiet, very comfortable. Yet, switch the suspension to Dynamic, turn on the paddles and unleash the 350bhp V8 and the thing can really hussle. Trouble is it's bloody huge, a bugger to park and the Mrs aways says I should be wearing a cap whilst driving so I look like a chauffeur then she can sit in the back and lord it.
So what I want is an A8 in an A4 body. An S class in a C class shell. But no matter how much you spec the smaller models up they're just not the same as their bigger brothers. Spend a fortune on an A4 and it's still a rep mobile underneath. I've looked at Merc E500's with all the toys but it's still just a tarted up Taxi. The interior is where it's at for me as I spend more time in it than I do looking at it.
The little RR Evoque gets close in concept but it's a little too "fashion " for me. It's got to have been around for at least 3 yrs so someone else has taken the depreciation hit as well.
Any bright idea's ?????
1. New ML, real leather (fake leather and fake alcantara standard) is an option, air suspension is an option, DAB is an option, everything is an option. The 2.1 250CDI engine is working too hard in a car of this size, relatively expensive in 350CDI form.
2. New CLS, lovely cabin, lovely to look at, 250CDI adequate, 350CDI much better. Wife had spinal surgery a few years back and found the seats uncomfortable, shame as it's probably the car we would have bought, very good deals to be had with pretty strong residuals. Needs air suspension for comfort with the huge standard wheels but it's ok, drive one to see for yourself.
3. New A6, almost the same amount of room as an A8, bigger boot than D4 A8. But, huge but, it's just an A6, feels a step down, even from a decade old A8.
4. A7, liked it a lot, comes with good levels of kit, no air suspension, no double glazed windows so even though you are in quite familiar surroundings to an A8 it doesn't quite have the feel of an A8 in refinement terms.
Ended up buying a new Q7 S Line Plus, this decision surprised me as I had no intention of buying one until I drove one, feels very very A8 like in terms of drive and refinement but it's still a massive car.
Major Fallout said:
I have been thinking that for years. I wanted a city car made by Rolls Royce, i know radford did it in the 60's and BMW Rolls Royce sold some minis. But I wanted citron suspension I want to see the potholes but not feel them, big engine that's silent and effortless, and a nice place to sit in traffic jams. I don't want to be able to see any plastic, I don't want to hear the outside world, I want wilton carpets and alloy indicator stalks. Heated windscreen heated seats and steering wheel please. And that's before the options list.
You get where I'm coming from then. Only I don't want a city car just a "normal" size car.The new 5 series is getting there but it ain't no 7 series in a smaller body. The 6 series GC is as big as an A8 just lower. I wouldn't look like chauffeur though.
Years ago I had a Maserati 222E. 3 series sized body but inside more wood, Alcatera and leather than you could shake a stick at. Added to that lovely 2.8 turbo'd V6 it was one of my all time favourite cars. Shame it fell to bits in no time at all.
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