Wednesday 20th November 2013

Exciting Hondas are coming back

From the S660 roadster to a carbon fibre CR-Z via the new NSX hybrid system...

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You sense Honda may have over-reacted when it essentially killed off all of its more exciting road car projects in the aftermath of our recent global financial meltdown. Today, this great marque, which above all else prides itself on being an innovative engineering company, finds itself rather sheepishly reduced to a portfolio of worthy but uninspiring cooking models - but perhaps not for very much longer.

We've been spending some time with Honda ahead of the 2013 Tokyo Motor Show, and as well as sampling a couple of laps in the new Civic Type R, we're happy to report the firm very much seems to have its mojo back.

Not destined for the UK unfortunately

Honda S660 heading for production?
That S660 roadster 'concept' taking a bow in Tokyo? Consider it signed off for sale in Japan - with global creative director Toshinobu Minami even joking he was already clearing space in his garage. This is great, because the S660 looks brilliant: poised, modern and compact.

A little too compact for Europe, though, as it turns out, since it seems unlikely to pass our more stringent homologation requirements. Partly due to the 660cc turbo Kei-car engine, but perhaps also the pedestrian-unfriendly crash touch points. Ok, so c'est la vie - it's laboured with a CVT anyway. Next.

 

It's like a reversed NSX. Sort of

Super Handling All Wheel Drive and the new NSX
Next is the new NSX. No, we weren't offered the chance to drive it. But we did drive the American market Acura RLX, which has a similar Dual Clutch Transmission V6 and three - three - electric motor hybrid setup labelled the same Super Handling All-Wheel Drive.

The SH-AWD here is similar, but reversed. Where the RLX has the V6 up front, driving the front wheels via a seven-speed electric motor-assisted DCT while the rear wheels are controlled by the other two electric motors, the NSX is rear-mid-engined, principally rear-wheel drive and has the extra electric motors in its nose. Even so, it doesn't take long behind the Acura's wheel to appreciate the potency.

P-AWS lets RLX get a grip (sorry)

The electric motors at the back of the RLX are calibrated to operate independently. This is the ultimate torque vectoring concept, since it can not only speed up the outside rear wheel but slow down the inside rear wheel using the electric motor's regenerative capability, thus improving efficiency. More impressive on a big luxury American saloon is the way it magically neutralises understeer. At the front of the NSX, with the added expediency of the steering angle, it could prove utterly spectacular - assuming Honda can get the ultra-complex calculations right.

Incidentally, the RLX is also available with Precision All-Wheel Steering (yes, the acronym is P-AWS), which has actuators on the back that offer up to 3 degrees of steering angle. These also operate independently on either side, making this RLX surprisingly accurate and light on its feet. Why the two separate systems? "Because it's Honda," we were told.

Less weight, more want for carbon CR-Z

The carbon fibre CR-Z concept
This same Hondaism applies equally to the two other different new hybrid systems the company is now putting into production. But you probably don't care about that. You might, however, care about a CR-Z with a carbon fibre monocoque.

Great idea, the CR-Z - if it wasn't for that heavy old hybrid system, right? Well, at a little over 800kg including ballast, this one is 350kg lighter, thanks to an entirely new carbon fibre tub, accompanying aluminium spaceframe, carbon fibre body panels and weight-improved optimisation elsewhere. The result is a brilliantly eager little coupe that feels so much more lithe than the standard version, this increased agility accompanied by a 0-62mph time that tumbles by 30 per cent to 8.3 seconds and a 20 per cent gain in efficiency.

Shame the tech remains far too expensive for Honda to consider it viable for production - further reason to wish the BMW i3 and Alfa 4C every success.

While none of this new stuff is going to bring about an instant overhaul of Honda's everyday range, with the new Civic Type R finally approaching the horizon, the big H is suddenly looking a lot more vibrant than it has so far this decade.

[j90gta]

That RLX looks really ruff!!

[LasseV]

It's a long way to production. And too many hybrids i think, but good news overall. Japanese performance cars are back!

[Frimley111R]

Honda desperately needs this stuff. These days it's a dull Jap manufacturer with an almost totally anonymous range. 20 years ago it was an exciting, desirable and dynamic manufacturer.

[LuS1fer]

CRZ and S660 aside, Honda have not so much dropped the ball, on styling, as lost it altogether.

[bobberz]

I think that carbon CR-Z would be fantastic if combined with the drivetrain of that Mugen concept from a few years ago. IIRC, it utilised a supercharger, boosting output to 200 bhp. It was essentially production-ready and every mag that tested it loved it, but Honda decided not to build it, anyway.

Combine the blown powerplant with the weight savings of this carbon version and you'd have one cracking car, I think!

Oh, the new NSX looks fantastic in race trim:

[Ali_T]

About time. It's been tragic, watching them ruin their image over the past decade and becoming an also-ran.

Now, Honda, can we talk about a new Prelude….

[ShuthanVtec]

I have been a Honda fan since I was a teenager, and the current range is as interesting as a piece of log,

I am glad they are stepping up and trying now.

I love my old Honda though, its when they made the best, pre 2001.

[SlowV6]

ShuthanVtec said:

I have been a Honda fan since I was a teenager, and the current range is as interesting as a piece of log,

I am glad they are stepping up and trying now.

I love my old Honda though, its when they made the best, pre 2001.

+1 to all that. I love my old Accord Coupe. Honda's were very well engineered.

The UK market has undergone a huge swing towards turbo's and diesels in particular in recent years and as we are a small market for Honda I feel they've just been caught out enginewise. That's no excuse for the recent styling though. I hope they can arrest their decline.

Come on Honda - sort it out!

[Zircon]

ShuthanVtec said:

I have been a Honda fan since I was a teenager, and the current range is as interesting as a piece of log,

I am glad they are stepping up and trying now.

I love my old Honda though, its when they made the best, pre 2001.

Same with Toyota, the 90's were an amazing time for Jap sportscars, at least things are heading in the right direction with the GT86 and this Honda news....

[BoyRacerChaser]

As a huge hoda fan, it still all looks like utter dross to me.

8.7 to 60? In a car that weighs so little? Engine must be the size of a pencil sharpner.
Get a B18C or a K20 shoe horned in, thats more like it.

Its ok, I dont buy my cars from the showroom, i buy them from the classifieds - And this is why.

[Repent]

bobberz said:

Oh, the new NSX looks fantastic in race trim:

As excited as I am by it, and as grateful it has a place in reality, aesthetically it does nothing for me. It just looks as you would expect it to look, almost a modern Japanese concept cliché. I don't feel the colour does it any favours however, it is a sinister looking thing and in a dark tone it will probably all make sense.

And I cannot wait for the noise.

[Mark Wibble]

I presume from the comical carbon CR-Z door arrangement it was supposed to be gull-wing which they then either couldn't make work or ran out of time to finish! Which effectively amount to the same thing I suppose.

[thatdude]

I really want to like the CR-Z in it's standard form, but one thing gets me - the supposed "fuel efficiency". I can get 48 mpg from my 1.6 civic, and the CR-Z gives a claimed 50. What is it like around town? Much worse? What about on a motorway run? Much better?

[forzaminardi]

Honda has to be alongside Alfa Romeo, one of the the manufacturers I 'want to like' most. Hopefully these new products will live up to their heritage as the range does badly need a lift. With a F1 return with McLaren (surely, McLaren-Honda is a F1 'brand' second only to Ferrari?) in 2015, the arrival of more sporting models is very timely. I'm not fussed about Civic Type-Rs and NSXs (not my cup of tea / not in my price range) especially, but a new S2000 and Prelude sort of coupe would make me happy - preferably without hybrid power, but at least optimised so as to minimise the compromises of hybrid power.

Edited by forzaminardi on Wednesday 20th November 14:23

[paulmaurice99]

Long time Honda fan but new car range is really not very interesting. Agree with previous poster that the older stuff is where it's at! Real shame they didn't keep the CRX going all this time as then we'd have generations of used stock to choose from..

[menoy]

Really would like to know what the price increase would be for a mainstream large volume model (so let's say Civic) built in the way that CRZ has been (CF, alu etc)..

[Yadash]

Repent said:

And I cannot wait for the noise.

You don't have to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VblfWkhUDs

[Andy ap]

P-AWS. Errrr, A car for our cats?

[keith2.2]

thatdude said:

I really want to like the CR-Z in it's standard form, but one thing gets me - the supposed "fuel efficiency". I can get 48 mpg from my 1.6 civic, and the CR-Z gives a claimed 50. What is it like around town? Much worse? What about on a motorway run? Much better?

In "eco" mode (whereupon the de-rigeur green leaf appears on the dah) it will run on its electric motor up to 30mph, and uses full regenerative power when slowing down - so around town it's (literally) infinately more efficient.

On a motorway It has a more slippery shape than your civic - I'd expect it to be better there when sitting at a constant speed.

When I drove one I thought it was a hoot - it was very reminient of my EG civics - which I still regard as being the most fun cars I've ever owned despite having also had an S2000 and currently a 4.6 Chim.

I cannot wait for Honda to get their mojo back - it's been heartbreaking to watch, having lived my late teens and early twenties with Civics and Preludes - even a legend coupe at one point!

[renaultgeek]

torque vectoring on the rlx sounds good, but it can't make it to the nsx, as it runs the opposite way round. If they made a civic or integra type r hybrid with that system it would be cool though. And I never expected to say a civic would be cool.