Discussion
Hi guys,
I currently have a MG ZR 1.8 VVC [160]
Recently spend £650 fixing it (engine replaced, labour, and MOT'd)
But now I think it's time I went down the Diesel route.
I want a diesel with some power, good looking, and reliable.
I have a budget of £2000 - maybe a bit more if I wait an extra month or so.
I know diesels mileage is less to worry about than petrols, but I don't want 100K+ on the clock before I buy it.
If budget wasn't a problem I'd like a VW Golf GTD 2.0 [170] but I'm looking 5 figures for that!!
Any recommendations? Mk3 Golf TDI? Seat Leon TDI?
Thanks in advance
Ben
I currently have a MG ZR 1.8 VVC [160]
Recently spend £650 fixing it (engine replaced, labour, and MOT'd)
But now I think it's time I went down the Diesel route.
I want a diesel with some power, good looking, and reliable.
I have a budget of £2000 - maybe a bit more if I wait an extra month or so.
I know diesels mileage is less to worry about than petrols, but I don't want 100K+ on the clock before I buy it.
If budget wasn't a problem I'd like a VW Golf GTD 2.0 [170] but I'm looking 5 figures for that!!
Any recommendations? Mk3 Golf TDI? Seat Leon TDI?
Thanks in advance
Ben
What are your reasons for going diesel? If its purely for lower running costs then you are unlikely to see any real savings unless you are doing serious motorway mileage each year. The fuel costs more, the parts are more expensive and there are more things to go wrong. You make a small saving in VED and that's about it
This won't end well.
Something with the 130pd vag engine in is a good bet, mk4 golfs and boras still demand a premium over the Leon of the Toledo. The engine is pretty solid if you find one that's been serviced and had it's oil changed on time.
Don't expect to find any decent diesel for under 2k they are built for mpg and to cover the miles and that's exactly what the majority have done.
Maybe a petrol would be better, just cause you want diesel isn't going to save you from massive bills. It's unlikely the mg will go wrong again with a new engine anyway.
Don't worry it won't be long before DPF which you won't find on a 2k car, injectors and turbos and other such scaremongering pop up. People slate these things cause they hate diesel and cuz u no a petrol car will never break
Something with the 130pd vag engine in is a good bet, mk4 golfs and boras still demand a premium over the Leon of the Toledo. The engine is pretty solid if you find one that's been serviced and had it's oil changed on time.
Don't expect to find any decent diesel for under 2k they are built for mpg and to cover the miles and that's exactly what the majority have done.
Maybe a petrol would be better, just cause you want diesel isn't going to save you from massive bills. It's unlikely the mg will go wrong again with a new engine anyway.
Don't worry it won't be long before DPF which you won't find on a 2k car, injectors and turbos and other such scaremongering pop up. People slate these things cause they hate diesel and cuz u no a petrol car will never break
If you do > 15k miles per year, buy a small (1.4-1.6) engined petrol car for £2k.
If you do < 15k miles per year, buy a larger (1.8-2.0) engined petrol car for £2k.
Avoid diesel at that price bracket unless you go for something older and more reliable like a PSA 1.9TD (306/ZX/406 TD). The VAG SDI engine is probably worth looking at for cheapness and reliability, but it's dog slow. Avoid anything with anything complicated bolted to it.
If you do < 15k miles per year, buy a larger (1.8-2.0) engined petrol car for £2k.
Avoid diesel at that price bracket unless you go for something older and more reliable like a PSA 1.9TD (306/ZX/406 TD). The VAG SDI engine is probably worth looking at for cheapness and reliability, but it's dog slow. Avoid anything with anything complicated bolted to it.
I am just wanting a different car, completely.
I don't have a real good reason for a diesel (mileage-wise),
but depending on my job circumstance in the new year I may have been looking at a minimum of 70 miles a day (working week) which is just over 18000 miles a year, without what I'd be doing at the weekend driving.
Ok, I think I will change the question. IF I was not intending to do a lot of miles/motorway driving then what is a reliable car to get within my budget?
My budget is made up of selling my car, selling coilovers I have with it (£300 or more), I have a spare gearbox to sell, alternator, PAS pumps, Inlet manifold, exhaust parts, etc. And obviously my own money.
I do want something with a bit of power (currently have 160bhp which in real terms being a 9 year old car with no engine tweaking is about 135bhp at best) but all the power is top end of revs.
My brother had a Golf VR6 which was nice looking, and comfortable to drive and being a V6 AND a VW I'd of thought the engine would be strong.
So thanks for the rain-check - Think its best I stay petrol then.. Recommendations?
Thanks again
I don't have a real good reason for a diesel (mileage-wise),
but depending on my job circumstance in the new year I may have been looking at a minimum of 70 miles a day (working week) which is just over 18000 miles a year, without what I'd be doing at the weekend driving.
Ok, I think I will change the question. IF I was not intending to do a lot of miles/motorway driving then what is a reliable car to get within my budget?
My budget is made up of selling my car, selling coilovers I have with it (£300 or more), I have a spare gearbox to sell, alternator, PAS pumps, Inlet manifold, exhaust parts, etc. And obviously my own money.
I do want something with a bit of power (currently have 160bhp which in real terms being a 9 year old car with no engine tweaking is about 135bhp at best) but all the power is top end of revs.
My brother had a Golf VR6 which was nice looking, and comfortable to drive and being a V6 AND a VW I'd of thought the engine would be strong.
So thanks for the rain-check - Think its best I stay petrol then.. Recommendations?
Thanks again
Your going to have to compromise.
Bora?
This seems good value - http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
feeling brave? http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
Bora?
This seems good value - http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
feeling brave? http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
BenEaton91 said:
I am just wanting a different car, completely.
I don't have a real good reason for a diesel (mileage-wise),
but depending on my job circumstance in the new year I may have been looking at a minimum of 70 miles a day (working week) which is just over 18000 miles a year, without what I'd be doing at the weekend driving.
Ok, I think I will change the question. IF I was not intending to do a lot of miles/motorway driving then what is a reliable car to get within my budget?
My budget is made up of selling my car, selling coilovers I have with it (£300 or more), I have a spare gearbox to sell, alternator, PAS pumps, Inlet manifold, exhaust parts, etc. And obviously my own money.
I do want something with a bit of power (currently have 160bhp which in real terms being a 9 year old car with no engine tweaking is about 135bhp at best) but all the power is top end of revs.
My brother had a Golf VR6 which was nice looking, and comfortable to drive and being a V6 AND a VW I'd of thought the engine would be strong.
So thanks for the rain-check - Think its best I stay petrol then.. Recommendations?
Thanks again
If you think your VVC is only 135hp then something is wrong with it. My brother has a 200 BRM with the VVC engine in and a couple of mods and it really screams. Not quite quick enough to stick with an EP3 Type R, but almost and will level peg/out run a Cooper S.I don't have a real good reason for a diesel (mileage-wise),
but depending on my job circumstance in the new year I may have been looking at a minimum of 70 miles a day (working week) which is just over 18000 miles a year, without what I'd be doing at the weekend driving.
Ok, I think I will change the question. IF I was not intending to do a lot of miles/motorway driving then what is a reliable car to get within my budget?
My budget is made up of selling my car, selling coilovers I have with it (£300 or more), I have a spare gearbox to sell, alternator, PAS pumps, Inlet manifold, exhaust parts, etc. And obviously my own money.
I do want something with a bit of power (currently have 160bhp which in real terms being a 9 year old car with no engine tweaking is about 135bhp at best) but all the power is top end of revs.
My brother had a Golf VR6 which was nice looking, and comfortable to drive and being a V6 AND a VW I'd of thought the engine would be strong.
So thanks for the rain-check - Think its best I stay petrol then.. Recommendations?
Thanks again
Lovely motors the VVC's.
As for power, well diesels aren't really about power and unless you aren't much of a driver, then any hatch with a diesel at even double your price range will feel dull as dishwater compared to the screaming K-Series.
That said, I understand the need/want for good mpg if you are doing lots of miles. But I suspect you really won't find much for £2k that will be powerful, fast, fun and diesel. Maybe it would be better to work out what sort of fuel cost you could afford a month and then use this to tell you what mpg you need from a car.
Well other than the Golf VR6 I drove (to the shop and back..) the VVC is the fastest car I've driven.
I have a straight-through s/s and enclosed induction kit on it, but I have an issue above 4000rpm which (due to how bad it sounds/feels) means I won't take it above 4000rpm at the moment.
I am just sick of having to fix it! Used to lose coolant all the time, the inlet manifold had a leak so the manifold gasket was replaced. The engine replacement recently.
I do love the car, but carrying on like this it will cost me loads to keep fixing the issues.
I am taking it for a free consultation this week to hope the problem can be identified. (Which would make me happier if fixed, and/or more money from sale as it would be a 'working car').
I know it's a 'fast' car for an early-20yr old.. but hm!!
Maybe I will see what garage says this week, as its a free consultation they will probably/hopefully try and diagnose all the problems it has to try and get more work from me.
Thanks for all the replies!!
I have a straight-through s/s and enclosed induction kit on it, but I have an issue above 4000rpm which (due to how bad it sounds/feels) means I won't take it above 4000rpm at the moment.
I am just sick of having to fix it! Used to lose coolant all the time, the inlet manifold had a leak so the manifold gasket was replaced. The engine replacement recently.
I do love the car, but carrying on like this it will cost me loads to keep fixing the issues.
I am taking it for a free consultation this week to hope the problem can be identified. (Which would make me happier if fixed, and/or more money from sale as it would be a 'working car').
I know it's a 'fast' car for an early-20yr old.. but hm!!
Maybe I will see what garage says this week, as its a free consultation they will probably/hopefully try and diagnose all the problems it has to try and get more work from me.
Thanks for all the replies!!
The thing is, the VVC unit is a revvy little sucker with a broad mid range due to being VVC but they make PEAK power at about the red line, so they are very much a drivers engine. As in you have to rev them and drive them hard to get the most from them, which makes them a very fun, smooth engine that performs well. Although I'm sorry to hear you are having issues with yours.
Going to a diesel however will mean something that won't rev and while making more torque low down, simply won't be as fun to "drive", even if it makes ok'ish total power.
This might not be an issue for you if you are going to be mostly commuting, but chances are such a car will never make you smile as much. As for problems, well any car can have issues, so while you are having problems now with your current one. Changing to a different car won't guarantee you won't have issues with it either.
If it's about fuel, then as said, work out how much a week/month you want or are willing to spend on fuel.
e.g. if you only want to spend £200/month on fuel and will be doing 20,000 miles a year.
Then that means you'll need a car doing 50-52mpg on petrol or 54-56mpg on diesel.
If however you are happy spending £300/month on fuel, then you'd only need 34mpg from a petrol or 37mpg from a diesel.
Going to a diesel however will mean something that won't rev and while making more torque low down, simply won't be as fun to "drive", even if it makes ok'ish total power.
This might not be an issue for you if you are going to be mostly commuting, but chances are such a car will never make you smile as much. As for problems, well any car can have issues, so while you are having problems now with your current one. Changing to a different car won't guarantee you won't have issues with it either.
If it's about fuel, then as said, work out how much a week/month you want or are willing to spend on fuel.
e.g. if you only want to spend £200/month on fuel and will be doing 20,000 miles a year.
Then that means you'll need a car doing 50-52mpg on petrol or 54-56mpg on diesel.
If however you are happy spending £300/month on fuel, then you'd only need 34mpg from a petrol or 37mpg from a diesel.
Suggest something with a VAG 1.9 PD motor, perhaps a Golf Mk 4, Bora or Seat Leon Mk 1. The VWs won't handle like your MG, though, without suspension upgrades.
My 2004 Leon FR TDI 150 has no DPF, a more reliable injection system than common rail diesels, averages about 50mpg (up to 55 on a motorway trip) and was remapped to 175hp (up to around 190/195 is possible with a clutch upgrade - watch out for clutch slip if remapping as uprated clutches aren't cheap).
Also consider Seat Ibiza Mk 4(?) TDI 130 and VW Polo GT TDI (model with round headlamps), Skoda fabia vRS Mk 1. All use the 130 TDI engine and the Polo is a sleeper - looks like a standard Polo.
My 2004 Leon FR TDI 150 has no DPF, a more reliable injection system than common rail diesels, averages about 50mpg (up to 55 on a motorway trip) and was remapped to 175hp (up to around 190/195 is possible with a clutch upgrade - watch out for clutch slip if remapping as uprated clutches aren't cheap).
Also consider Seat Ibiza Mk 4(?) TDI 130 and VW Polo GT TDI (model with round headlamps), Skoda fabia vRS Mk 1. All use the 130 TDI engine and the Polo is a sleeper - looks like a standard Polo.
I scoot around in an ancient 306 HDi. No DMF, EGR easy to bypass, no DPF or any other gubbins to go wrong.
It's noisy, but very good on fuel. Even if you thrash it you'll get circa 50mpg. It's not for everyone though, and the rest of the car is falling apart around the engine sadly.
It leaves me in a tight spot because what can I replace it with?! I have no spare cash, it's worth £1000 tops and anything newer is more complicated and I'm less likely to be able to fix it on my driveway (or someone elses driveway for that matter!). My intention is to run it til it dies...
It's noisy, but very good on fuel. Even if you thrash it you'll get circa 50mpg. It's not for everyone though, and the rest of the car is falling apart around the engine sadly.
It leaves me in a tight spot because what can I replace it with?! I have no spare cash, it's worth £1000 tops and anything newer is more complicated and I'm less likely to be able to fix it on my driveway (or someone elses driveway for that matter!). My intention is to run it til it dies...
Yeah, I know the car's power is top-end. I can't use that at the moment haha!
I think when new it was stated 158bhp at 6600rpm and redline is 7100rpm
I think best bet is to see what the issue I have is, and see how much it costs to fix
Because like you've all said
1.) Diesel isn't worth having with the amount of miles I do
2.) Diesel will be pretty boring to drive compared to VVC
3.) With my budget I'd get another car that would probably cost me the same or more to fix
If I was to keep the VVC, I was planning on getting it dyno'd to ensure its giving figures it should. Then get a remap.
I am going to an MG meet this Saturday so if garage hasn't had time to look at it, then I will hope a more technical-minded (hopefully a mechanic, haha) can take a look/listen.
I will start a new thread if I feel I am keeping the car.. Progress thread, etc.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it. Nice to know I get sensible replies here!!
Ben
I think when new it was stated 158bhp at 6600rpm and redline is 7100rpm
I think best bet is to see what the issue I have is, and see how much it costs to fix
Because like you've all said
1.) Diesel isn't worth having with the amount of miles I do
2.) Diesel will be pretty boring to drive compared to VVC
3.) With my budget I'd get another car that would probably cost me the same or more to fix
If I was to keep the VVC, I was planning on getting it dyno'd to ensure its giving figures it should. Then get a remap.
I am going to an MG meet this Saturday so if garage hasn't had time to look at it, then I will hope a more technical-minded (hopefully a mechanic, haha) can take a look/listen.
I will start a new thread if I feel I am keeping the car.. Progress thread, etc.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it. Nice to know I get sensible replies here!!
Ben
The advice here is good, although if you're really going to be doing 18k miles per year, the right diesel car could save you a decent amount of money. However, how much money will you lose in the sale of your current car, the bloomin' unnecessary admin fee to change your insurance policy, taxing the replacement car etc?If you do decide to go diesel, do plenty of homework on the individual models and engine specs on owners forums etc. Avoid common-rail injection if possible- what you want is the older, simpler models which are much less refined than the latest engines but still do pretty well in the performance and economy stakes. The 1.9 VAG engine is a good shout, in normally aspirated (slow) or turbocharged guise. Early ones escape the common rail pitfalls. Look out for these engines in Skodas, Old Octavias and Fabias especially, you can get a 1.9SDI in a Felicia which is about as basic as you get, Seats particularly the relatively unloved Seat Toledo, VW Bora, Golf and Jetta.
PSA Have the old 1.9 tdi as well which is famously tough, if you chose carefully the 2.0HDI ones are pretty good too.
Be aware that where there is a turbo, dual mass flywheel, common rail injection etc there is plenty of scope for bills of several hundred quid so go in with your eyes open. If need be, buy a £1200 car and keep £800 in your back pocket to cover off potential bills.
I can guarantee, however, that your VVC powered MG is a damn sight more fun to drive than any of the above so if I were you I'd be hoping that it can be fixed easily and permanently.
ETA: Also, beware Octavias, Passats, 406s etc etc are all very popular minicabbing motors so be particularly vigilant when you check the paperwork that they haven't been clocked.
Edited by HustleRussell on Monday 9th December 12:05
HustleRussell said:
The advice here is good, although if you're really going to be doing 18k miles per year, the right diesel car could save you a decent amount of money. However, how much money will you lose in the sale of your current car, the bloomin' unnecessary admin fee to change your insurance policy, taxing the replacement car etc?If you do decide to go diesel, do plenty of homework on the individual models and engine specs on owners forums etc. Avoid common-rail injection if possible- what you want is the older, simpler models which are much less refined than the latest engines but still do pretty well in the performance and economy stakes. The 1.9 VAG engine is a good shout, in normally aspirated (slow) or turbocharged guise. Early ones escape the common rail pitfalls. Look out for these engines in Skodas, Old Octavias and Fabias especially, you can get a 1.9SDI in a Felicia which is about as basic as you get, Seats particularly the relatively unloved Seat Toledo, VW Bora, Golf and Jetta.
PSA Have the old 1.9 tdi as well which is famously tough, if you chose carefully the 2.0HDI ones are pretty good too.
Be aware that where there is a turbo, dual mass flywheel, common rail injection etc there is plenty of scope for bills of several hundred quid so go in with your eyes open. If need be, buy a £1200 car and keep £800 in your back pocket to cover off potential bills.
I can guarantee, however, that your VVC powered MG is a damn sight more fun to drive than any of the above so if I were you I'd be hoping that it can be fixed easily and permanently.
ETA: Also, beware Octavias, Passats, 406s etc etc are all very popular minicabbing motors so be particularly vigilant when you check the paperwork that they haven't been clocked.
Edited by HustleRussell on Monday 9th December 12:05
But I know I will need a diesel at some point in my life (work) so knowing the above is helpful. Hopefully, I'll be able to get a company car so won't have to worry about it as my own car per-say.
HustleRussell said:
The advice here is good, although if you're really going to be doing 18k miles per year, the right diesel car could save you a decent amount of money. However, how much money will you lose in the sale of your current car, the bloomin' unnecessary admin fee to change your insurance policy, taxing the replacement car etc?If you do decide to go diesel, do plenty of homework on the individual models and engine specs on owners forums etc. Avoid common-rail injection if possible- what you want is the older, simpler models which are much less refined than the latest engines but still do pretty well in the performance and economy stakes. The 1.9 VAG engine is a good shout, in normally aspirated (slow) or turbocharged guise. Early ones escape the common rail pitfalls. Look out for these engines in Skodas, Old Octavias and Fabias especially, you can get a 1.9SDI in a Felicia which is about as basic as you get, Seats particularly the relatively unloved Seat Toledo, VW Bora, Golf and Jetta.
PSA Have the old 1.9 tdi as well which is famously tough, if you chose carefully the 2.0HDI ones are pretty good too.
Be aware that where there is a turbo, dual mass flywheel, common rail injection etc there is plenty of scope for bills of several hundred quid so go in with your eyes open. If need be, buy a £1200 car and keep £800 in your back pocket to cover off potential bills.
I can guarantee, however, that your VVC powered MG is a damn sight more fun to drive than any of the above so if I were you I'd be hoping that it can be fixed easily and permanently.
ETA: Also, beware Octavias, Passats, 406s etc etc are all very popular minicabbing motors so be particularly vigilant when you check the paperwork that they haven't been clocked.
Edited by HustleRussell on Monday 9th December 12:05
But I know I will need a diesel at some point in my life (work) so knowing the above is helpful. Hopefully, I'll be able to get a company car so won't have to worry about it as my own car per-say.
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