McLaren's new 911T Rival - The P13

[TREMAiNE]

Seems to be reasonably well priced, it would be nice to see a British rival to the very German controlled area of the market!

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mclaren...

[Krikkit]

Massive pinch of salt needed for anything autocar, but it's 80hp down on the standard 991 Turbo, I'm sure it won't be 20% lighter than the 12C!

[zeduffman]

444hp doesn't sound like a heck of a lot for £120,000

[bakerstreet]

Hopefully it won't actually be called the P13. McClaren are clearly building great cars, but their naming convention isn't very inspiring. MP4-12C could be the latest photocopier!

I quite like the look of the yellow car, but agreed this could be a rendering fresh from the Autocar art department.

[jimmsy]

The wheels are a bit small aren't they?

[djt100]

surely a 911 rival would start at 60k not 120k.
I really have what magazines do these comparisons but one car 20k the other 40k and no surprise the 40k car is better,pointless

[Dr Interceptor]

djt100 said:

surely a 911 rival would start at 60k not 120k.
I really have what magazines do these comparisons but one car 20k the other 40k and no surprise the 40k car is better,pointless

The cheapest 911 now starts at £73k, and that has 350hp. This would sit (power wise) between the £90k 400hp C4S, and the 520hp £119k Turbo.

However the Mclaren will feature more extensive use of carbon in its structure etc, so will command a price premium over the 911 Turbo.

[Krikkit]

Dr Interceptor said:

djt100 said:

surely a 911 rival would start at 60k not 120k.
I really have what magazines do these comparisons but one car 20k the other 40k and no surprise the 40k car is better,pointless

The cheapest 911 now starts at £73k, and that has 350hp. This would sit (power wise) between the £90k 400hp C4S, and the 520hp £119k Turbo.

However the Mclaren will feature more extensive use of carbon in its structure etc, so will command a price premium over the 911 Turbo.

This is where plausibility dies imo. It can't be significantly lighter than the Turbo (which is about 1400kg, same as the 12C), because it's using the same engine, gearbox and tub as the 12C, with a similar sized body, so it doesn't have near enough power to compete with the 911T.

[Davey S2]

I think this car will target the GT3 rather than the Turbo as it doesn't appear to be targeted as an everyday car.

[Rich_W]

I await McLarens 2 statements.

1) This car will be a million times better than all the competition and will move the game in 1000 years.

2) "We did sub 5 mins at the ring. Proof.?We don't need to supply proof"

[Dr Interceptor]

Rich_W said:

2) "We did sub 5 mins at the ring. Proof.?We don't need to supply proof"

But here's a video of us doing it, complete with a telling thumbs up from the driver. What more proof do you need?

[anonymous-user]

Careful believing anything written in Autocar about a car that's 1-2 years away from the show room. The details are usually very loose and all stats are +/- 30% at least!

Sounds good to me, but I think £120k is a bit close to the price of a 12C. Sub £100k would be a better place for a 400bhp sports car.

[coppice]

911T ? Low powered early 911...

[007 VXR]

Can see them sell well if around 100K?

[Dr Interceptor]

If a lot of the R&D has already been paid for by the MP4-12C project, there's no reason I suppose why this can't have a slightly lower price tag.

[Fittster]

McLaren PR department v Autocar.

Which comes up with the most nonsense.

[anonymous-user]

Dr Interceptor said:

If a lot of the R&D has already been paid for by the MP4-12C project, there's no reason I suppose why this can't have a slightly lower price tag.

They would have factored in the cost to produce/sale price of this car into the business case for the 12C (if it's true that they share architecture). They'll sell it for as much as they think they can sell it for.

[Dr Interceptor]

RenOHH said:

They'll sell it for as much as they think they can sell it for.

Absolutely. I'd imagine the selling price and volume was pre-determined three years ago too.

[Bombjack]

bakerstreet said:

Hopefully it won't actually be called the P13.

It won't, P13 is the internal development name. The 12C was known as P11 during development, and the P1 was P12 (go figure).

[Carl_Docklands]

Krikkit said:

Dr Interceptor said:

djt100 said:

surely a 911 rival would start at 60k not 120k.
I really have what magazines do these comparisons but one car 20k the other 40k and no surprise the 40k car is better,pointless

The cheapest 911 now starts at £73k, and that has 350hp. This would sit (power wise) between the £90k 400hp C4S, and the 520hp £119k Turbo.

However the Mclaren will feature more extensive use of carbon in its structure etc, so will command a price premium over the 911 Turbo.

This is where plausibility dies imo. It can't be significantly lighter than the Turbo (which is about 1400kg, same as the 12C), because it's using the same engine, gearbox and tub as the 12C, with a similar sized body, so it doesn't have near enough power to compete with the 911T.

There is something not quite right with the current Porsche 911 lineup, put it down to the way the 991 looks, the cost for what you get, the way the interior feels and the electronic steering. Also Porsche's reluctance to step up the Boxster and Cayman engines or, produce a GT4 Cayman.

Porsche's current lineup is un-inspiring. The new Macca does not have to be as quick as the new Turbo S to get people to jump ship, it just needs to be in the same ball-park as a 430bhp 991 (around £115k fully optioned).

As a Porsche owner, you know what you are going to get with a cut price Macca. It will still have carbon fibre, be mostly hand-assembled and it will be British. It will also have a deep motorsport pedigree. On current evidence this new car might actually be better engineered and built than a 991.

I am willing to pay a little more for what this car might have plus, a bit more exclusivity than a 991 could give. Nissan had some of the boxes ticked with the GT-R and many 911 owners did happily jump ship but I feel this new car might have all the boxes ticked apart from, the 2+2 seat configuration and roof box option.

There are many Porsche owners who would want a new Macca but simply cannot afford (or justify) spending £200k on an optioned mp4 coupe on the other hand, they don't want a 991 either.

Biggest problem I can see is that you will be able to pick up a used mp4 spider for less than £120k on this new cars release.

Edited by Carl_Docklands on Friday 13th December 09:52