What happened to LPG?
Discussion
Leaving home today I noticed that a neighbours Mk4 Golf had the little LPG filler cap on the OSR wing, I must admit that I haven't seen one in a while.
Why was LPG never the success it could have been? There was a time when ads for the kits were fairly commonplace, but the fuel was never picked up by manufacturers and never seemed to gain traction in any great number.
Focus nowadays is on efficient small capacity petrol and diesel engines along with hybrids. Why did LPG not do the same? Was it just not commercially viable? Did it harm the engine?
All we see of LPG nowadays seems to be slightly rusty filler holes on cars like the P38 Range Rover.
Why was LPG never the success it could have been? There was a time when ads for the kits were fairly commonplace, but the fuel was never picked up by manufacturers and never seemed to gain traction in any great number.
Focus nowadays is on efficient small capacity petrol and diesel engines along with hybrids. Why did LPG not do the same? Was it just not commercially viable? Did it harm the engine?
All we see of LPG nowadays seems to be slightly rusty filler holes on cars like the P38 Range Rover.
I use it every day.
If cars started to leave the factory with LPG and then more and more and more. The Gov would not get the tax from petrol and would put up the price of LPG to match petrol thus making it pointless.
LPG uses more mpg than petrol so would cost more if the price was matched with petrol.
If cars started to leave the factory with LPG and then more and more and more. The Gov would not get the tax from petrol and would put up the price of LPG to match petrol thus making it pointless.
LPG uses more mpg than petrol so would cost more if the price was matched with petrol.
I dunno, I still see a lot of LPG pumps and regularly see LPG on cars (but living out in the countryside, there are many tight arse farmers running old petrol cars on LPG, they'd probably fill their cars with red diesel if they were diesel cars).
I think one of the biggest reasons it failed to make an impact was a lack of manufacturer support. Most of the LPG outfits would sell you a kit, or fit one for you in a shed. If the major car manufacturers had got behind it, it would have been much more popular. When was the last time you saw a car manufacturer offer an LPG option? The last 'factory fitted' LPG kit on a car I remember was the Astra H Dual Fuel!
If you'd been able to walk into a BMW dealership around 1998 and ask for an LPG system on your 3 series, it'd probably be a lot more popular!
I think one of the biggest reasons it failed to make an impact was a lack of manufacturer support. Most of the LPG outfits would sell you a kit, or fit one for you in a shed. If the major car manufacturers had got behind it, it would have been much more popular. When was the last time you saw a car manufacturer offer an LPG option? The last 'factory fitted' LPG kit on a car I remember was the Astra H Dual Fuel!
If you'd been able to walk into a BMW dealership around 1998 and ask for an LPG system on your 3 series, it'd probably be a lot more popular!
Niche usage?
The lack of infrastructure probably meant dual fuel was a requirement. Duel fuel means a good portion of boot space lost (lost some consumers). Add in additional cost (lose some more consumers). Add in a perceived reduction in efficiency (consumers rarely look at TCO). Factor in uncertainty of "the govt will just increase the duty". For conversions, a lack of manufacturer backed conversions (uncertainty) and a high outlay for return (2-3 payback?)
It did/has created a niche?
The lack of infrastructure probably meant dual fuel was a requirement. Duel fuel means a good portion of boot space lost (lost some consumers). Add in additional cost (lose some more consumers). Add in a perceived reduction in efficiency (consumers rarely look at TCO). Factor in uncertainty of "the govt will just increase the duty". For conversions, a lack of manufacturer backed conversions (uncertainty) and a high outlay for return (2-3 payback?)
It did/has created a niche?
Shaoxter said:
Garlick said:
Focus nowadays is on efficient small capacity petrol and diesel engines along with hybrids. Why did LPG not do the same? Was it just not commercially viable? Did it harm the engine?
LPG isn't any more efficient, it just costs less.I've said this before on here but I think LPG has missed its day. I had an LPG car a few years ago and the savings were great. Never had any problems with the LPG bit on the car.
The problem for me was lack of LPG suppliers. Only one local garage to me and none near work and I'm in the Midlands, hardly the end of the country (although there tend to be more garages that supply it out in the country from my experience!).
The problem for me was lack of LPG suppliers. Only one local garage to me and none near work and I'm in the Midlands, hardly the end of the country (although there tend to be more garages that supply it out in the country from my experience!).
I think I recall something about engines having to start up on petrol before automatically switching over to LPG once warm. There were some trials of LPG-only vehicles (in Japan, I think) but never heard anything else.
I think the 'dual' bit prevented it being adopted wholesale - an additional fuel tank (and everything else that goes with the system) takes up quite a bit of space. Manufacturers are on a trend of inflating their cars because consumers want more interior space (or manufacturers want to advertise larger interiors) so filling 80-100 litres of interior volume probably wasn't desirable.
If LPG had been an option as a solo fuel I think we would have seen greater adoption.
I think the 'dual' bit prevented it being adopted wholesale - an additional fuel tank (and everything else that goes with the system) takes up quite a bit of space. Manufacturers are on a trend of inflating their cars because consumers want more interior space (or manufacturers want to advertise larger interiors) so filling 80-100 litres of interior volume probably wasn't desirable.
If LPG had been an option as a solo fuel I think we would have seen greater adoption.
Shaoxter said:
Garlick said:
Focus nowadays is on efficient small capacity petrol and diesel engines along with hybrids. Why did LPG not do the same? Was it just not commercially viable? Did it harm the engine?
LPG isn't any more efficient, it just costs less.I had a 2.2 Astra converted, the conversion wasn't exactly problem free resulting in the cylinder head cracking due to an overheating issue (I did eventually save back the cost of the installation on fuel usage though). Engines with soft valve seats need flashlube kits fitting.
Lots of horror stories around - I often see LPG cars for sale with "LPG system fitted but not working, think it just needs a service".
Popular in Australia though, just never took off here - probably a combination of poor government grant, and then lack of uptake causing a poor filling station network. Having said that I rarely struggled to find a place to fill mine.
You can get creative and hide the filler, or have it colour coded.
J4CKO said:
I like the idea of it but a 99p filler cap in an odd place totally ruins any car it is on, especially some lovely old barge.
Indeed. Again, manufacturer support could have seen a solution to that, like a properly integrated filler cap. Why can't the LPG fuel tank fill through the boot? Rather than spoil the silky smooth flank of a W140 S Class, couldn't they mount the filler cap in the boot floor? Then you'd just pop open the boot, insert the nozzle and fill up. No ugly filler cap to be seen on the outside.I thought the efficiency thing was down to dual-fuel cars being optimised to run on petrol, and consequently running massively retarded on LPG.
You can get an auto switching advance/retard kit for Land Rovers, which allows the ignition to be set to the LPG ideal, then it retards it for Petrol. Supposedly it makes the car run a lot better.
Also, modern multi-point LPG conversions can start from cold on LPG. They're also reckoned to be a lot better in efficiency terms than the old single point systems, which was a glorified carburettor, but without the sophistication.
You can get an auto switching advance/retard kit for Land Rovers, which allows the ignition to be set to the LPG ideal, then it retards it for Petrol. Supposedly it makes the car run a lot better.
Also, modern multi-point LPG conversions can start from cold on LPG. They're also reckoned to be a lot better in efficiency terms than the old single point systems, which was a glorified carburettor, but without the sophistication.
Baryonyx said:
Indeed. Again, manufacturer support could have seen a solution to that, like a properly integrated filler cap. Why can't the LPG fuel tank fill through the boot? Rather than spoil the silky smooth flank of a W140 S Class, couldn't they mount the filler cap in the boot floor? Then you'd just pop open the boot, insert the nozzle and fill up. No ugly filler cap to be seen on the outside.
Like this
Baryonyx said:
Indeed. Again, manufacturer support could have seen a solution to that, like a properly integrated filler cap. Why can't the LPG fuel tank fill through the boot? Rather than spoil the silky smooth flank of a W140 S Class, couldn't they mount the filler cap in the boot floor? Then you'd just pop open the boot, insert the nozzle and fill up. No ugly filler cap to be seen on the outside.
Works until you go on holiday and have a boot full of stuff. Or if it's pouring with rain and the garage doesn't have a canopy.Plus it would place the filler in the line of fire of the crumple zone?
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