Flappy paddle gearboxes - will there be a demand backlash?

[Matt UK]

Firstly, I use 'flappy paddles' as an easy way to capture DSG, PDK etc etc.

Secondly I've been shouted down on a few threads, an example being about the Porsche GT3 being PDK only.

'The market gets what the market wants'
'Car makers are there to make money, not pander to forum dreamers'
'Everybody wants to be a racing driver / brag to their mates, girlfriends etc'
'The playstation generation don't want and never will want a clutch pedal'
'It's the best of both worlds - auto in town, gears on the twisties'

I get it. Especially on the test drive. Or for the first year. Maybe two.

I had a Golf GTi DSG from work for a month a while back. I initially liked it. Admired it. Admitted that I could cover ground more quickly. But then got bored of it. Although it was 'quicker' it was just less involving and ultimately less satisfying. I felt within a week I'd learnt all the car had to give. No more to be gained. No more satisfaction from that perfect heel'n'toe downshift amid the other 99 'not quite right' ones. Every one was perfect - and as a result the novelty wore off.

And that's before we even get on to stories of bork, which must be more common than on a manual gearbox.

So, anyone done the flappy paddles and reverted back to manual?
Moved to flappy paddles and never going back?

So is the flappy paddles a fashion thing? Will there ever be a manual option upsurge in demand as the first-gen users get bored or are we on a one-way street? Will future engines even be able to be married up to manual gearboxes so we're all getting trained by the manufacturers now whilst still using our internal combustion engines?

[WaferThinHam]

It's mostly driven by emissions why my understanding.

A dual clutch box can be taylered to give minimum emissions. Also suspect the EU test is probably biased towards them as well.

[themoon66]

Oooh I like a flappy paddle, me.

< no help >

[HoHoHo]

I've owned a 335i 7 speed DCT, flappy paddles - brilliant

I now own an F10 M5 7 speed DCT, flappy paddles - even better

Manual gearbox?

No thanks

[GTIR]

I've got flappy paddles on my E250 diesel and I only use the paddle going up the gears because it keeps the engine noise down.

[0a]

Unfortunately for most people anything that removes the idea that a car is a mechanical device is a good thing.

[Urban Sports]

I wouldn't be arsed if I never pressed a clutch pedal again in my life.

[sjj84]

I had a smg m3 and now have a manual z4. If they'd produced the z4m with the smg box I'd of had that in a shot. That gearbox would be worth the higher running costs over the si.

Not sure about these auto boxes with paddles. Only had a brief go in a Mercedes c class. Wasn't overly impressed to be honest.

[Urban Sports]

sjj84 said:

I had a smg m3 and now have a manual z4. If they'd produced the z4m with the smg box I'd of had that in a shot. That gearbox would be worth the higher running costs over the si.

Not sure about these auto boxes with paddles. Only had a brief go in a Mercedes c class. Wasn't overly impressed to be honest.

The manual box in a Z4M is probably it's biggest flaw, an SMG would have been good!

[themanwithnoname]

Yup.

Mrs no name has it on record that my next car will be an auto flaps or none. I spend >80% of my time in the car sat in traffic at a guess. The remaining time, whilst the perfect heel n toe is satisfying, is only one small part of the experience.

[jamieduff1981]

Sadly I suspect manuals are not going to return in numbers.

Even on PH if one dares to venture that they'd prefer cars to take a different direction, the fashion is to shout that person down for their lack of business accumen. It's less a place for people passionate about cars and driving and more a place where finance directors get together.

Personally, I feel many sporty cars are bought by people who like the image and glamour of a twisty road drive, but in reality want to use the car to crawl around in city traffic. That's where the population is densest and therefore where most buyers live. The cars find themselves in environments where their "genre" wasn't initially glamourised and so each generation of the genre evolves towards ease of use - and more impressive brochure figures.

Those who want to enjoy their daily drivers as an involving experience are largely alienated and the PH wisdom is very enthusiastic about pointing out how nobody cares what we PHers think - instead pointing to extremely driver focused, hugely impractical and usually very expensive cars as an alternative. For some people, a numb box for 95% of their driving and a Caterham for fun isn't really what they want - they may want something engaging (but not tiring) all the time.

However, this is Pistonheads, and it's deeply unfashionable to sympathise with anyone who enjoys driving and much more fashionable to tell that person they're irrelevant.

[Abbott]

1700ss Cat with 4speed and crossflow. Nothing matches the feel of a knob in your hand slickly flicking through the gate.

[themoon66]

Abbott said:

Nothing matches the feel of a knob in your hand

Arf

[Leins]

Just to point out that not all flappy paddle boxes operate well in urban environments. As an example, SMGII is pretty ropey in "auto"-mode, but comes alive when used hard

Also, this debate seems to always assume that a driver can only appreciate one particular form of gearbox

[tehguy]

When I was 18 I said I would never own an auto. Strangely enough I now have paddles and I would never go back, I don't see why. The gearchanges are perfect every time, pulling away and stopping is always perfectly smooth. No faffing around with the handbrake or jumping pedals quickly when doing hill starts.

I admit it is probably a bad thing that manuals are in decline now, as they will always be seen as more "sporty". However with technology advancing it is inevitable that everything will be automatic eventually, I think some manufacturers have already accepted that fate.

You also have to remember that hybrid, electric etc cars can only be automatic, so once they take over then that's it.

[DukeDickson]

HoHoHo said:

I've owned a 335i 7 speed DCT, flappy paddles - brilliant

I now own an F10 M5 7 speed DCT, flappy paddles - even better

Manual gearbox?

No thanks

Not quite in the same league performance wise, but as a contra, my parents' last 2 DSG equipped cars have been total cack to drive. Clever in the same way that self-driving cars are clever. Or, even auto lights & wipers.

However, I guess non-enthusiast drivers mileage varies. Ooh, controversial .

I'd take a top dollar Honda manual 'box over the other world alternatives every time.

Edited by DukeDickson on Saturday 11th January 02:20

[R I C H]

Matt UK said:

So, anyone done the flappy paddles and reverted back to manual?
Moved to flappy paddles and never going back?

I owned a Golf GTI with DSG for just under 2 years. It was proficient. Reliable, nippy and comfortable, but I got bored with it. I'd never owned an auto box'd car before moving to Canada, and the choice of vehicles with manual boxes here is limited. After 8 years of driving autos, I wanted something that actually involved me in the driving process.

I changed to a '13 Impreza STI hatch. Less refined, similarly compliant road manners (which surprised me a little), lower rent interior, but ultimately more interesting and more characterful to own. I'm happy with the choice.

[vikingaero]

Company car then yes. Personal cars, no, as I keep them well after the warranty.

[andy_s]

Can't see a resurgence myself, just as I can't see us all going back to vinyl; you can't put the st back in the donkey.

For me, family car - auto-everything; my car - mechanical analogue.

[Jon999]

Liked the DCG on the TTS. Launch control was particularly satisfying with it being 4wd. Made a great crack noise on up shifts too.