Second hand trader issues
Discussion
Wasn't really sure what to title this. I Know there's a few of these kind of threads about but I find the search function on PH crap.
GF Just bought a 2010 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Veloce 1.6 JTDM on saturday the 18th which comes with a 1 month warranty. Car has 63k miles and cost £7800 (ex lease car).
The demister appears to be faulty and doesn't work at all.
We didn't test this at the time we bought it as it didn't need to be switched on (no misted up rear screen).
The dealer (a small second hand type of car place run out of some lock ups, but he does have his own mechanic) is saying that this isn't covered under warranty as it only covers mechanical problems. I accept this may be the case, but I'm pretty sure he's still obliged to make sure everything is in working order on such a purchase as the car is only 3 years old and cost £8k so shouldn't be expected to have any problems with it.
So, does anybody have any information I can use to persuade him to sort the issue? The dealer is in Derby and we are Sheffield so its a 45 minute journey and a bit of a pain to do just to fix a rear windscreen.
I haven't seen the car yet as it's my girlfriends who I don't live with - once I get the chance will be checking the fuse.
GF Just bought a 2010 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Veloce 1.6 JTDM on saturday the 18th which comes with a 1 month warranty. Car has 63k miles and cost £7800 (ex lease car).
The demister appears to be faulty and doesn't work at all.
We didn't test this at the time we bought it as it didn't need to be switched on (no misted up rear screen).
The dealer (a small second hand type of car place run out of some lock ups, but he does have his own mechanic) is saying that this isn't covered under warranty as it only covers mechanical problems. I accept this may be the case, but I'm pretty sure he's still obliged to make sure everything is in working order on such a purchase as the car is only 3 years old and cost £8k so shouldn't be expected to have any problems with it.
So, does anybody have any information I can use to persuade him to sort the issue? The dealer is in Derby and we are Sheffield so its a 45 minute journey and a bit of a pain to do just to fix a rear windscreen.
I haven't seen the car yet as it's my girlfriends who I don't live with - once I get the chance will be checking the fuse.
Edited by lewisf182 on Tuesday 21st January 19:49
treetops said:
Check fuse and wire connections first...
Get on the owners forum as they will be able to help you too.
I'll leave the solicitors letters / SOGA / reject car suggestions to others...
I will check fuse at some point as this was thrown up a few times from initial research, as for testing the wire I wouldn't have a clue how to!Get on the owners forum as they will be able to help you too.
I'll leave the solicitors letters / SOGA / reject car suggestions to others...
Have looked on owners forums and can't seem to find many instances of this happening to Giulietta's but will sign up and post, cheers.
That's what I was looking for really, some SOGA term or something that will show he is liable to make sure everything that should be working is whether its electrical of mechanical - which I believe should be the case no matter what he thinks.
lewisf182 said:
That's what I was looking for really, some SOGA term or something that will show he is liable to make sure everything that should be working is whether its electrical of mechanical - which I believe should be the case no matter what he thinks.
AIUI the car should be in a reasonable condition for the year and mileage and considering the price paid. Is a heated rear window demister included? I'd guess not as PCD appears to agree.POORCARDEALER said:
Heated rear window not working....on a used car you will be looking for the goodwill of the dealer on that one, legally he isnt obliged to fix it...
Now if the gearbox blows up...TA14 said:
lewisf182 said:
That's what I was looking for really, some SOGA term or something that will show he is liable to make sure everything that should be working is whether its electrical of mechanical - which I believe should be the case no matter what he thinks.
AIUI the car should be in a reasonable condition for the year and mileage and considering the price paid. Is a heated rear window demister included? I'd guess not as PCD appears to agree.POORCARDEALER said:
Heated rear window not working....on a used car you will be looking for the goodwill of the dealer on that one, legally he isnt obliged to fix it...
Now if the gearbox blows up...POORCARDEALER said:
Heated rear window not working....on a used car you will be looking for the goodwill of the dealer on that one, legally he isnt obliged to fix it...
Who draws the line as to what should reasonably work on the car ? The dealer? The punter ? A court ?Who all know trying to enforce SOGA is not worth the hassle.
What is frustrating is that the dealers make punters believe the "warranty" has anything to do with it and use it as an excuse.
I am not questioning your judgement and experience btw.
nickfrog said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Heated rear window not working....on a used car you will be looking for the goodwill of the dealer on that one, legally he isnt obliged to fix it...
Who draws the line as to what should reasonably work on the car ? The dealer? The punter ? A court ?Who all know trying to enforce SOGA is not worth the hassle.
What is frustrating is that the dealers make punters believe the "warranty" has anything to do with it and use it as an excuse.
I am not questioning your judgement and experience btw.
You could argue the law back and forth all day about whether it should be covered.
But, from a practical perspective a 'small trader operating from lock ups' isn't likely to offer to fix it.
From a main dealer you might gave an argument.
From some prestige used car dealer you might have an argument.
But from the cheaper flavour of dealer knocking out ex fleet cars with a one month warranty then it's unlikely you're covered.
But, from a practical perspective a 'small trader operating from lock ups' isn't likely to offer to fix it.
From a main dealer you might gave an argument.
From some prestige used car dealer you might have an argument.
But from the cheaper flavour of dealer knocking out ex fleet cars with a one month warranty then it's unlikely you're covered.
lewisf182 said:
Wasn't really sure what to title this. I Know there's a few of these kind of threads about but I find the search function on PH crap.
GF Just bought a 2010 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Veloce 1.6 JTDM on saturday the 18th which comes with a 1 month warranty. Car has 63k miles and cost £7800 (ex lease car).
The demister appears to be faulty and doesn't work at all.
We didn't test this at the time we bought it as it didn't need to be switched on (no misted up rear screen).
The dealer (a small second hand type of car place run out of some lock ups, but he does have his own mechanic) is saying that this isn't covered under warranty as it only covers mechanical problems. I accept this may be the case, but I'm pretty sure he's still obliged to make sure everything is in working order on such a purchase as the car is only 3 years old and cost £8k so shouldn't be expected to have any problems with it.
So, does anybody have any information I can use to persuade him to sort the issue? The dealer is in Derby and we are Sheffield so its a 45 minute journey and a bit of a pain to do just to fix a rear windscreen.
Basically no. You I am afraid are not correctGF Just bought a 2010 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Veloce 1.6 JTDM on saturday the 18th which comes with a 1 month warranty. Car has 63k miles and cost £7800 (ex lease car).
The demister appears to be faulty and doesn't work at all.
We didn't test this at the time we bought it as it didn't need to be switched on (no misted up rear screen).
The dealer (a small second hand type of car place run out of some lock ups, but he does have his own mechanic) is saying that this isn't covered under warranty as it only covers mechanical problems. I accept this may be the case, but I'm pretty sure he's still obliged to make sure everything is in working order on such a purchase as the car is only 3 years old and cost £8k so shouldn't be expected to have any problems with it.
So, does anybody have any information I can use to persuade him to sort the issue? The dealer is in Derby and we are Sheffield so its a 45 minute journey and a bit of a pain to do just to fix a rear windscreen.
Have a read here: http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/
And here: http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/explained
It should explain. If not let me know and I'll try and give it go.
nickfrog said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Heated rear window not working....on a used car you will be looking for the goodwill of the dealer on that one, legally he isnt obliged to fix it...
Who draws the line as to what should reasonably work on the car ? The dealer? The punter ? A court ?Who all know trying to enforce SOGA is not worth the hassle.
What is frustrating is that the dealers make punters believe the "warranty" has anything to do with it and use it as an excuse.
I am not questioning your judgement and experience btw.
As for defining what is reasonable. Well the obvious candidate is 'common sense'. But sadly few seem to be able to use such simple judgement.
In this case, the cars is not new, is outside manufactures warranty and you can use it as a car with or without the rear demister working. It doesn't prevent the car being used as a car.
It is also something that an owner can check (fuse) and as it's fused is something the car maker expects may cause the fuse to blow (else why fit a fuse at all??).
If it doesn't work for any other reason, then chances are it isn't a hugely expensive item to replace. And lets face it, the new owners claimed they couldn't test as the rear window wasn't misted. Any seller could claim the exact same thing.
If it doesn't work due to the wires being damaged where a sticker once was, then the new owner should have noticed this when inspecting and test driving the car. It wouldn't have been kept a secret by the seller.
lewisf182 said:
This is why I was miffed about it really. On a £1k car I'd accept it, but 2010 and £8k is fairly new and a fair chunk of money still for a second hand car, so I'd expect everything to be working. And if not would want them to fix it.... We shall see!
IMO that's quite a naive view.nickfrog said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Heated rear window not working....on a used car you will be looking for the goodwill of the dealer on that one, legally he isnt obliged to fix it...
Who draws the line as to what should reasonably work on the car ? The dealer? The punter ? A court ?Who all know trying to enforce SOGA is not worth the hassle.
What is frustrating is that the dealers make punters believe the "warranty" has anything to do with it and use it as an excuse.
I am not questioning your judgement and experience btw.
I think some more black and white trading laws for the motor trade would help both the trade and the consumer
jamoor said:
I deal in used cars, I would deem it unreasonable for it not to work 3 days after buying it on a 3 year old car and I would fix it.
And we don't know the full story. I think the details from both sides would have a sway in this. But I don't think there is any real obligation.Ok well I'll take on board what people are saying. But for me it's an issue that a trader should expect to have to deal with, it's not like its happend after a few months and we've contacted out the blue, it's within 3 days and as soon as we first operated the demist function.
May just be a case of some dealers would show goodwill and others would wash their hands of it as appears to be the case with this trader so will just take it on the chin if it isn't a fuse.
300bhp/ton... I bought a car with a rear de mister, I expect it to work. If it was an old classic with no function it wouldn't be an issue in the first place would it?
May just be a case of some dealers would show goodwill and others would wash their hands of it as appears to be the case with this trader so will just take it on the chin if it isn't a fuse.
300bhp/ton... I bought a car with a rear de mister, I expect it to work. If it was an old classic with no function it wouldn't be an issue in the first place would it?
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