Monday 27th January 2014

Lister Jaguar Knobbly - more details

The 50s recreation shown in production spec; don't expect a 50s price tag though...

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The last we heard from the Lister Motor Company was back in September when it announced another Knobbly Jaguar would be produced 60 years after the original. Just a few months later we have a pic, price and spec details.

It isn't cheap, let's deal with that first. The roadgoing spec will cost £259,000 plus tax (presumably VAT), the racing car £249,000 plus tax. Lister is predictably keen to highlight that original Knobblys now sell in the millions of dollars (the highest being $1.9m at RM's Monterey auction last year), but that's still a hefty price tag.

Despite this, Lister claims half of its 2014 production is already sold. The first customers will receive their cars in April, which should allow those with the race versions nearly a full season of competition (the Lister is eligible for FIA/HTP Appendix K historic racing, remember). We're promised a pair of press cars then too; MD Lawrence Whittaker has said there will be "a dedicated launch event at a track venue in the UK. Watch this space!" Our eager eyes are peeled Lawrence...

Furthermore, if a unique and hand-built Lister is within your means, there is now an online catalogue. It is Lister's first brochure of any kind in 25 years and in it you will discover tales of Lister legends like Archie Scott Brown and Colin 'Chippy' Crisp, plus a full mechanical spec. Running the D-Type spec 3.8 straight-six, it makes 335hp at 6,750rpm and 295lb ft at 4,250rpm. In a car that weighs 1,736lbs dry (what, you expected Lister to quote that metric nonsense? It's 787kg if you can't convert) that will make it really rather fast; even running a D-Type four-speed gearbox, it will hit 60mph in 4.3 seconds, 100 in 10.1 and 181mph.

Following the launch, Lister is still planning a series of sponsored races for 2015 to mark Lister's 125th anniversary. Best of British to you chaps!

[toppstuff]

Very good luck to them.

Anyone close to the classic and sports car scene will tell you that values and costs in this game are going mental at the moment. Prices are rising.

Unlike other classic car booms in the past, this time around a lot of the money is coming from Asia and Lat Am, even Russia. There is a growing number of wealthy people out there looking to get involved in the scene.

Against such a background, this Lister is pretty damn good value. I think they may just make this work...

[jamespink]

At last... A new car I REALLY want! Utterly gorgeous and, compared to recent e-type recreations, very competitively priced! I guess with half the first years production sold the market thinks so too...

[sinbaddio]

Truly, truly spiffing. Love it!

[jaik]

Lovely stuff. More like this please, car industry!

[Turbobanana]

Beautiful car, but press photo looks like a model one pictured in an ornamental rockery.

[ugg10]

I think I have just had an accident !!

Jumps to the top of my euromillions list !

[dinkel]

On a similar note, check this Gatto:

http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/features/o...

I wonder what Eagle could do:

http://www.eaglegb.com/pages/eagle-etype-gt-coupe

O-M-G . . .

Allard does a mean J2X

http://www.allardj2x.com/

Great to see 'new cars' like these being born.

[lowdrag]

People seem to have overlooked the Lister Knobblies produced in 1990 too. I spent several years trying to buy the one that Robin Sturgess had in his showroom in Leicester, but he was asking too much for my wallet. IIRC there were five made and they are accepted for racing just like the originals since they were made by Lister. But I have a question as regards the new ones; time has moved on and the new approval requirements under the IVA require substantial changes to the original specification. Take for example the new Proteus C-type; it has fuel injection, a catalyst, modified dashboard and so on just so it can be registered. Just what are Lister doing on this point?

[Hooli]

lowdrag said:

People seem to have overlooked the Lister Knobblies produced in 1990 too. I spent several years trying to buy the one that Robin Sturgess had in his showroom in Leicester, but he was asking too much for my wallet. IIRC there were five made and they are accepted for racing just like the originals since they were made by Lister. But I have a question as regards the new ones; time has moved on and the new approval requirements under the IVA require substantial changes to the original specification. Take for example the new Proteus C-type; it has fuel injection, a catalyst, modified dashboard and so on just so it can be registered. Just what are Lister doing on this point?

I'd assume they are small enough numbers to use SVAs, wouldn't that bypass all that nonsense?

[Greg_D]

Oh dear, i've arrived...

[rhinochopig]

This or a new supercar? Think it would have to be this everytime - even if I did get wet when it rained. Stunning.

[downr]

i don't really get it

i'm a huge fan of classic cars and the lister jags are no exception

But its a replica! It has no history, no providence. You can't get into it thinking - "this used to race around le mans 60 years ago"

That would be fine if they were charging £60-80k, a figure that might be justified based on the manufacturing costs etc. But they aren't - they want to charge £250k, and I'll say it again - for a REPLICA!!!

This just feels a little ridiculous and to justify it on the basis that proper, original ones with history go for $1m+ is just crass. On that basis we should all be out building Ferrari 250 GTO replicas and selling them for a $1m+ a piece....

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure its going to be lovely. But £250k - what am I missing (apart from a billion dollar bank balance such that my sense of value become totally warped)?

[jagracer]

This one will have brand new but original engines with Webers which will never get within a million miles of meeting modern emission standards plus it doesn't look anywhere near SVA'able (or whatever it is now) so perhaps there's going to be a lot more rebodied XJs on the road.

[ian_uk]

It's a cheap(er) way to go historic FIA racing. That means it has to replicate the original pretty much to the nut and bolt. I can see where the price comes from (because the alternative is to buy an original) and why it will sell as it is filling a specific niche.

Edited by ian_uk on Monday 27th January 13:03

[RichB]

downr said:

i don't really get it

i'm a huge fan of classic cars and the lister jags are no exception

But its a replica! It has no history, no providence. You can't get into it thinking - "this used to race around le mans 60 years ago"

That would be fine if they were charging £60-80k, a figure that might be justified based on the manufacturing costs etc. But they aren't - they want to charge £250k, and I'll say it again - for a REPLICA!!!

This just feels a little ridiculous and to justify it on the basis that proper, original ones with history go for $1m+ is just crass. On that basis we should all be out building Ferrari 250 GTO replicas and selling them for a $1m+ a piece....

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure its going to be lovely. But £250k - what am I missing (apart from a billion dollar bank balance such that my sense of value become totally warped)?

I agree but what bothers me more is that sooner or later these will be passed off as acceptable for historic racing and we wont' be watching Lister Knobblies racing at Le Mans Classic, Spa and Goodwood it will be a field of new cars made to look like old ones. Which would be very odd.

[MattOz]

My Uncle raced the 1959 Pace Petroleum Lister Knobbly back in the late 70's and early 80's. He won the FIA historic sports car championship in 79, 80 and 81 in it. Special car!

[lowdrag]

Hooli said:

I'd assume they are small enough numbers to use SVAs, wouldn't that bypass all that nonsense?

The IVA replaced the SVA some years back. Download it and see just how the requirements have tightened. Last time I look it was over 200 pages long, with incident angles of light and all - a nightmare. Furthermore, the DVLA are tightening up on people using old identities to create a new car. I mean, a Knobbly doesn't look quite the same as an XJ6 now, does it? The problem is that Lister will be classed as a small car producer and as such the IVA rules will, just as Lynx found out with their Proteus C-type, be applied with vigour. I see how they can produce the racer, but a road car I r3ckon will be somewhat different. And they are NOT replicas at all; they are made by Lister, are identical in every way, and are continuations of the original with a correct chassis number. They are a time warp, just as the Willment GT40's were. OK, they were made in the 1960's, just not assembled until the 90's, but what's the difference in reality? Correlate it to the Sanction 2 Zagato Astons if you will.

[Agent Orange]

Excellent. I'm all for replicas being made for racing series especially if by or endorsed by the original manufacturer.

Who doesn't like the idea of full grids at events like the Revival?

[ToneyCaroney]

RichB said:

downr said:

i don't really get it

i'm a huge fan of classic cars and the lister jags are no exception

But its a replica! It has no history, no providence. You can't get into it thinking - "this used to race around le mans 60 years ago"

That would be fine if they were charging £60-80k, a figure that might be justified based on the manufacturing costs etc. But they aren't - they want to charge £250k, and I'll say it again - for a REPLICA!!!

This just feels a little ridiculous and to justify it on the basis that proper, original ones with history go for $1m+ is just crass. On that basis we should all be out building Ferrari 250 GTO replicas and selling them for a $1m+ a piece....

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure its going to be lovely. But £250k - what am I missing (apart from a billion dollar bank balance such that my sense of value become totally warped)?

I agree but what bothers me more is that sooner or later these will be passed off as acceptable for historic racing and we wont' be watching Lister Knobblies racing at Le Mans Classic, Spa and Goodwood it will be a field of new cars made to look like old ones. Which would be very odd.

Does this not already happen (maybe not at Goodwood)or have I missed something? I thought that's what the FIA Appendix K eligibility offered.

[chrisemersons]

downr said:

i don't really get it

i'm a huge fan of classic cars and the lister jags are no exception

But its a replica! It has no history, no providence. You can't get into it thinking - "this used to race around le mans 60 years ago"

That would be fine if they were charging £60-80k, a figure that might be justified based on the manufacturing costs etc. But they aren't - they want to charge £250k, and I'll say it again - for a REPLICA!!!

This just feels a little ridiculous and to justify it on the basis that proper, original ones with history go for $1m+ is just crass. On that basis we should all be out building Ferrari 250 GTO replicas and selling them for a $1m+ a piece....

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure its going to be lovely. But £250k - what am I missing (apart from a billion dollar bank balance such that my sense of value become totally warped)?

My sentiments entirely, this may as well be a westfield or any other kit car - as you rightly say it has no history or provenance. Anybody that pays that much money for a replica must be insane imo.