Abarth 500, RS twingo/197, Swift sport or Ibiza Bocanegra?
Discussion
I'm curious about these little terrors,and may have the option to buy one or the other in a year or two. I like all of them but rank them as such:
1. Bocanegra or Cupra -looks superb and the twin charged engine pulls like a train however i'm not sure the DSG will just be a gimmick.
2.197 Clio -Is it really as good as people make out plus reasonable size and willing n/a engine for more involvement than a FI engine plus no paddles, also don't like the face lifted 200 it's too fussy.
3. Abarth 500 -Bonkers idea of a car cannot be taken seriously although it should, unique but cool looks sounds decent and instant Kudos in my eyes, Plus Mrs Madkat really likes the 500 so may more willing help with funding than the others.
4. Swift sport not sure what all the fuss is about as it looks rather bland to me but is supposed to be a hoot handling wise, practical and cheap to run.
5. Twingo renaultsport -Reminds me of my old Lupo gti like an angry yorkshire terrier but the lack of space and needing to wring its neck every five minutes means will the novelty wear off or will the direction changing ability of a fly make up for it. (Like the 500 i'd probably need a bike rack too).
What do fellow of PH's think?
1. Bocanegra or Cupra -looks superb and the twin charged engine pulls like a train however i'm not sure the DSG will just be a gimmick.
2.197 Clio -Is it really as good as people make out plus reasonable size and willing n/a engine for more involvement than a FI engine plus no paddles, also don't like the face lifted 200 it's too fussy.
3. Abarth 500 -Bonkers idea of a car cannot be taken seriously although it should, unique but cool looks sounds decent and instant Kudos in my eyes, Plus Mrs Madkat really likes the 500 so may more willing help with funding than the others.
4. Swift sport not sure what all the fuss is about as it looks rather bland to me but is supposed to be a hoot handling wise, practical and cheap to run.
5. Twingo renaultsport -Reminds me of my old Lupo gti like an angry yorkshire terrier but the lack of space and needing to wring its neck every five minutes means will the novelty wear off or will the direction changing ability of a fly make up for it. (Like the 500 i'd probably need a bike rack too).
What do fellow of PH's think?
Clio for me. In a year or two's time though?
The Ibiza looks absurd, it's like an angry badger (well, in black and white anyway). It wouldn't even make my list.
Mini as mentioned would be a good shout.
Twingo looks like a laugh but not sure I'd want one doing long journeys.
Swift doesn't appeal to me like the older ones did, and even then they're not as fast as they look, so it would have to be very entertaining to drive.
MX5?!
The Ibiza looks absurd, it's like an angry badger (well, in black and white anyway). It wouldn't even make my list.
Mini as mentioned would be a good shout.
Twingo looks like a laugh but not sure I'd want one doing long journeys.
Swift doesn't appeal to me like the older ones did, and even then they're not as fast as they look, so it would have to be very entertaining to drive.
MX5?!
A pre-facelift Punto Abarth SS.
I don't care how it drives, it looks AMAZING.
From your list, the Seat is a decent leftfield choice IMO, failing that the Clio 197 is a subtle /smart looking beast that has monstered far bigger and better machines on road and track. It's a clear winner.
R56 is ugly, R53 Cooper S is a beaut
I don't care how it drives, it looks AMAZING.
From your list, the Seat is a decent leftfield choice IMO, failing that the Clio 197 is a subtle /smart looking beast that has monstered far bigger and better machines on road and track. It's a clear winner.
R56 is ugly, R53 Cooper S is a beaut
Its going to be a year or two as i want to save more funds first and mrs madkat might put a bit in for my 30th, plus ive recently had an insurance mishap so would hopefully be back to 5yncb by then. I am curious on the punto too and would really be a better shout than the 500 with more space. The reviews say the punto has a rather 'lumpy' ride is this true. Something about the mini doesnt apeal to me though probably something to do with them being more common imo. I should also add i will be avoiding any cup or essese chasis as the roads around here are better suited to a disco than a hot hatch.
Sounds like you'll be in test drive heaven for a while...becasue you should decide on the merits of ride and chassis suitability in your area by doing that rather than basing it on what 'we' say...
Also consider, do you prefer a quality car that might be common?
Do you prefer a rare car, depsite the fact it may have 'faults'
Do you want a car that makes you look back as you walk away from parking it?
Or is it simply what the best liitle hot hatch that rides the best on my local roads?
Also consider, do you prefer a quality car that might be common?
Do you prefer a rare car, depsite the fact it may have 'faults'
Do you want a car that makes you look back as you walk away from parking it?
Or is it simply what the best liitle hot hatch that rides the best on my local roads?
The Ibiza Bocanegra looks ace and the Interior seems pretty good too. This would certainly be near the top of my list.
My friend had a Twingo and although fun in the bends it was severely underpowered, it made 118bhp on the dyno which is very common with those engines. They are essentially the 110 found in the Mk2 Clio 1.6 with different cams and manifold. He sold it after 6 months due to the novelty wearing off quick.
I can see the Suzuki Swift being more of the same but with less character.
The Clio 197 would be a good bet as they are a fair bit quicker than Twingo but carry the same characteristics, great handling and a revvy engine.
I like the Abarths but have never driven one so I can only comment on the great noise and looks, not a bad choice as well.
For me it would be:
1.) Clio 197
2.) Ibiza Bocanegra
3.) Abarth (but the 160bhp essesse)
An alternative could be an FN2 Type R? The prices have dropped, they're quicker than the above, best interior, most space, best engine and IMO best looking.
My friend had a Twingo and although fun in the bends it was severely underpowered, it made 118bhp on the dyno which is very common with those engines. They are essentially the 110 found in the Mk2 Clio 1.6 with different cams and manifold. He sold it after 6 months due to the novelty wearing off quick.
I can see the Suzuki Swift being more of the same but with less character.
The Clio 197 would be a good bet as they are a fair bit quicker than Twingo but carry the same characteristics, great handling and a revvy engine.
I like the Abarths but have never driven one so I can only comment on the great noise and looks, not a bad choice as well.
For me it would be:
1.) Clio 197
2.) Ibiza Bocanegra
3.) Abarth (but the 160bhp essesse)
An alternative could be an FN2 Type R? The prices have dropped, they're quicker than the above, best interior, most space, best engine and IMO best looking.
I've yet to drive a VAG group car from this millenium which is 'fun' to drive. I doubt the Bocanegra is the first exception.
In a hot hatch, my choice would be a naturally aspirated engine, as little weight as possible, and a well sorted chassis. I expect I'd be looking quite hard at the Swift Sport, and also the Twingo 133 and the various hot MINI options.
In a hot hatch, my choice would be a naturally aspirated engine, as little weight as possible, and a well sorted chassis. I expect I'd be looking quite hard at the Swift Sport, and also the Twingo 133 and the various hot MINI options.
Madkat said:
1. Bocanegra or Cupra -looks superb and the twin charged engine pulls like a train however i'm not sure the DSG will just be a gimmick.
2.197 Clio -Is it really as good as people make out plus reasonable size and willing n/a engine for more involvement than a FI engine plus no paddles, also don't like the face lifted 200 it's too fussy.
3. Abarth 500 -Bonkers idea of a car cannot be taken seriously although it should, unique but cool looks sounds decent and instant Kudos in my eyes, Plus Mrs Madkat really likes the 500 so may more willing help with funding than the others.
4. Swift sport not sure what all the fuss is about as it looks rather bland to me but is supposed to be a hoot handling wise, practical and cheap to run.
5. Twingo renaultsport -Reminds me of my old Lupo gti like an angry yorkshire terrier but the lack of space and needing to wring its neck every five minutes means will the novelty wear off or will the direction changing ability of a fly make up for it. (Like the 500 i'd probably need a bike rack too).
What do fellow of PH's think?
1 & 3 are apalling lifestyle accesories for people who like badges not driving. 2 is by far the best but the 200 is better than anything else anywhere until you spend 10x as much (evo's words) and it won every award and every group test around. 5 and 4 are great if you are circa 18 but would want something a bit more substantial if you're a bit older.2.197 Clio -Is it really as good as people make out plus reasonable size and willing n/a engine for more involvement than a FI engine plus no paddles, also don't like the face lifted 200 it's too fussy.
3. Abarth 500 -Bonkers idea of a car cannot be taken seriously although it should, unique but cool looks sounds decent and instant Kudos in my eyes, Plus Mrs Madkat really likes the 500 so may more willing help with funding than the others.
4. Swift sport not sure what all the fuss is about as it looks rather bland to me but is supposed to be a hoot handling wise, practical and cheap to run.
5. Twingo renaultsport -Reminds me of my old Lupo gti like an angry yorkshire terrier but the lack of space and needing to wring its neck every five minutes means will the novelty wear off or will the direction changing ability of a fly make up for it. (Like the 500 i'd probably need a bike rack too).
What do fellow of PH's think?
Sounds shallow but i definitely want a good looking car or a look back over your shoulder car and it's got to sound as decent as possible for a four banger as barely any of my car history have had any aural character.
But yes ride quality is a big issue around here so stiffened up suspension is a no go (it's the reason i traded in my Cupra for the Octy). I'm also a bit of a three year car changer so i'd like something with charm and a bit rarer to make me hold onto it for a while so something special that will depreciate less (as putting the bulk of my savings into it so budgeting £7-9k max) would be nice. Think that rules out the Renault or is that they're cheaper in the first place, The Abarth's seem to do a good job of clinging onto some value.
But yes ride quality is a big issue around here so stiffened up suspension is a no go (it's the reason i traded in my Cupra for the Octy). I'm also a bit of a three year car changer so i'd like something with charm and a bit rarer to make me hold onto it for a while so something special that will depreciate less (as putting the bulk of my savings into it so budgeting £7-9k max) would be nice. Think that rules out the Renault or is that they're cheaper in the first place, The Abarth's seem to do a good job of clinging onto some value.
Abarth is the only one out of them with any real Aural charm, the Clio is really let down by its soundtrack.
There is no doubt the Clio will be the best drivers car.
But as a daily driven car that looks good, is built well and is occasionally hooned...maybe a little too focused and cheaply put together.
A Mini Cooper S in R53 and R56 form would cover most of your criteria as mentioned above. Probably a good middle ground between the Abarth and the Clio.
There is no doubt the Clio will be the best drivers car.
But as a daily driven car that looks good, is built well and is occasionally hooned...maybe a little too focused and cheaply put together.
A Mini Cooper S in R53 and R56 form would cover most of your criteria as mentioned above. Probably a good middle ground between the Abarth and the Clio.
I went from a 197 to an Octavia just like yours.
The 197 will have a firmer ride. Will be more thirsty. And will of course, have less torque.
In every other respect it will be a better car. Every single one. Including reliability if my experiences are anything to go by.
I test drove the Corsa (didn't handle as well) 500 (was fun, but I just preferred the clio) The mini cooper S (didn't seem as good in the value stakes and wasn't as quick) So yeah, 197.
The Punto may be fun to drive and while the clio is no looker, that punto be fugly....!
The 197 will have a firmer ride. Will be more thirsty. And will of course, have less torque.
In every other respect it will be a better car. Every single one. Including reliability if my experiences are anything to go by.
I test drove the Corsa (didn't handle as well) 500 (was fun, but I just preferred the clio) The mini cooper S (didn't seem as good in the value stakes and wasn't as quick) So yeah, 197.
The Punto may be fun to drive and while the clio is no looker, that punto be fugly....!
snowen250 said:
The Punto may be fun to drive and while the clio is no looker, that punto be fugly....!
The revised 'evo' was a misguided mid-term face lift.The Punto before the evo , is IMO one of the finest hatchback designs of all time, so beautifully resolved and proportioned, original and restrained.
In Abarth trim, subtle, but unmistakable, its like a pretty, smaller Focus RS in it's styling attitude..
Perfect IMO.
(interior is less good
)
Quickmoose said:
snowen250 said:
The Punto may be fun to drive and while the clio is no looker, that punto be fugly....!
The revised 'evo' was a misguided mid-term face lift.The Punto before the evo , is IMO one of the finest hatchback designs of all time, so beautifully resolved and proportioned, original and restrained.
In Abarth trim, subtle, but unmistakable, its like a pretty, smaller Focus RS in it's styling attitude..
Perfect IMO.
(interior is less good
)
Just a shame the dynamics don't match the looks.
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