Another 4x4 7 Seater question

[Lozo]

Hi All

First post on here and just need a little advice as I’m lost on making a decision. Bit of background, we live near London but are moving to rural Mid Wales we have 3 young boys and are looking for a 7 seater 4x4. I’ve read several posts on this topic too from people with similar decisions but with no further conclusion to my problem.

Access to the property is generally good, local roads are tarmac and in sound condition, our access road is steep and hard compact rubble.

Our criteria is as follows (this will mainly be my wife’s car but also double as a family car).

We need a 4x4 with 7 seats.
It needs to be an Auto (my wife only has an auto license)
We need something that is safe and reliable
We are not that concerned about driving refinement nor speed
Budget is 10,000 max, we’re not that concerned about age but having a lower mileage vehicle would be beneficial
Economical would be good too, whether parts and/or fuel consumption.
My wife has ruled out the X5

Vehicles I’ve looked at, I realise all potential vehicles are a compromise of the above but here’s where I’m at.

Petrol XC90
Diesel XC90

Concerned about what I’ve read with earlier models about gear box issues and 4 wheel driving failing. However I’ve seen cheaper petrol versions out there too, any major disadvantage taking petrol over diesel other than running costs?

Mitsubishi Shogun

Concerned about running costs and high cost of maintenance, but from what I’ve read good capable 4x4

Nissan Patrol
Nissan Terrano
CHEVROLET CAPTIVA
LAND ROVER DISCOVERY


Hyundai Santa Fe
KIA Sorento

I leaning towards these last two but am having trouble finding a 7 seater, most seem to be 5. They seem like a good compromise between our criteria.

What do I do, I need this sorted in the next few weeks! Damn it's a hard decision and I don't want to get it wrong, we simply can't afford to.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[richs2891]

Kia Sorrento - the age your looking is 5 seats only.
Terrano is great but rubbish on the motorway,
Shogun is 7 seats but zero boot when use 7 seats and the rear most back seats are uncomfortable to get in and small. And they are heavy on fuel.

Nissan pathfinder if you need its off road capabilities - or else a Volvo XC90.

[dazwalsh]

you could take a look at the mitsubishi outlander, and the citroen c-crosser and peugeot 4007 are exactly the same car but with small styling changes. You should be able to pick an 09/10 plate one with low miles for your sort of budget. If you ask me there one of the better looking 4x4's around too.

I test drove a top spec one but walked because dealer wanted to offer me peanuts for my car and wouldnt budge at all on list price but from what i remember it seemed a solid rugged thing, the 6th and 7th seats though are occasional seats, they are a fold flat thing that look very thin and uncomfortable.

[jhonn]

The Toyota Landcruiser (LC series) meets all your criteria, however it's not that cheap to run (though no more so that any full-size 4x4). If you don't need the extra ground clearance or towing capacity you could consider the Volvo XC70; though not standard it can be optioned with 7 seats.

[Lozo]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated - worried about the reliability of the XC90....some people have had no issues and some lots, doesn't seem to have consistency in this regard. I'll check out mitsubishi outlander, the citroen c-crosser and peugeot 4007 now and Nissan pathfinder. Thanks again for the advice.

[longblackcoat]

You'll get a decent Discovery 3 for £10k, and in my experience they're reliable, though note that things wear out faster than on some other cars. So don't be surprised to have large bills (suspension components wear out, EGR valves, stuff like that) pop up as you get to 100k+. The air suspension I found to be reliable, and the electrics were as well.

The 7 seats are very usable, and it's a nice place to be. Mid-20s MPG is not great, but no worse than an XC90.

Other thing to note with the XC90 is that the rear seats are OK for kids and for occasional use by adults, but not really a nice place to be. The Disco's seats are a million times better.

[Snowboy]

I have a Disco 3.
HSE top spec model.
2004 with 100k+ miles

It cost £10k.
Lower spec with lower miles are available for the same price.
But, there's a list of stuff that needs doing at 100k, mine had all this already done.

They are relatively expensive to run - although that's broadly true of any 7 seat 4x4.
Big brakes, big tyres, low mpg.

I went through pretty much exactly the same set of questions, and the D3 came out top on all my questions.

[Snowboy]

The Crack Fox said:

It's not often you see "reliable" and "Land Rover" in the same sentance. OK, I haven't owned one myself, but I think I'd be looking at Jap or Korean if I was out in the sticks with kids in the back where the AA are miles away.

If you've not owned one it's not really fair to coment.

A lot if brand new Landies had problems
They have loads of electronics and new tech and there were teething problems.
The D3's around now tend to be as reliable as any car of the same age.

The arguments about the big old Eastern trucks being more reliable are broadly true. But that's because they lack a lot if the tech that is in the newer cars.
It's much like arguing a hammer is more reliable than a nail gun.
They are great old trucks, but not many people would want a Hilux as their daily drive. (I speak from experience).

[kiethton]

Slightly Left-field but:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...

Merc R-class - will 6 seats do or must it be 7?

4WD, auto, fair miles, under £10k, won't drive like a van.....

[Lozo]

Lots of good advice here, thanks very much. Like I said reliability is more important for us at the moment than refinement in the driving experience. I don't envisage lots of motorways miles in this vehicle either.

I'll look at the Discovery 3 and Landcruiser and add them to the list.

Thanks again all

[minghis]

Some people have a low opinion of them but my wife has had a Chevrolet Captiva for 3 years now and it's served its purpose extremely well.

It's a 2007/57 LT Auto which gives you 7 seats and 4 wheel drive on demand. The rearmost seats are proper full size ones that fold completely into the floor, it's auto with tiptronic function, lots of airbags, really easy to drive and has a great heater and stereo.

Running costs over 3 years have been nothing other than MOT's (passed all) and servicing at the local Vauxhall dealer who are familiar with the car. It's never gone wrong, nothing's broken or failed and it doesn't eat tyres. Used almost entirely for short trips it isn't the most economical diesel car but for what you get I don't think it's too bad, considering it hasn't been high maintenance. It's insured fully comp with all the trimmings for just over £200.

The wife uses it for the school run (short trips, lots of them) and it's never had DPF issues. She can see over the hedges and has a bit more confidence to keep going if the lanes to the school are a bit flooded or muddy. In fact she regularly comes home with it covered in mud where she's dropped a wheel into a ditch but just kept going...

I use it for some stuff I do that involves tracks, fields and water and it copes relatively well. It's no mud plugger but the higher ground clearance and the 4wheel drive mean it will get me around where an 'ordinary' car without the ground clearance won't.

For your money you'll get a really good one, relatively speaking.

[minghis]

Oh, before I go - be prepared for some to come along in a minute and try to convince you that a low slung estate car with winter tyres (BMW 5 series probably) and deckchairs in the boot will be everything you need and anything with 4 wheel drive and some ground clearance will NOT be waht you need, or want.

[Supernova190188]

Landcruiser ? cheap on parts as it won't break , but not so cheap on fuel , but then any proper 4x4 isn't going to be cheap on fuel.
By the way where in Mid Wales are you moving to?

[Veeayt]

Merc R-class

[Snowboy]

It may be worth seeing what specialists are near to where you live.
If there's an Indy Toyota Specialist it might be worth looking for a Toyota, if there's a Jeep specialist buy a jeep.

It'svalways nice to use a local specialist for the annual service as they know the extras to check.

[Lozo]

That comment minghis made me chuckle.
Kapitein - thanks for the advice on the XC90, duly noted and thanks for the link too. Does the mileage not seem a little high on this?
Supernova we've moving just south of Machynlleth baout 20 mins drive from there.
Snowboy - makes perfect sense that - I'll see what's local.
Longblackcoat - the discovery is sounding like a pretty good option at the moment.

I'd like to start pulling a short list together soon, once I do I'll post up 2-3 options and go from there.
Appreciate everyone's help so far.

Thanks again

Edited by Lozo on Tuesday 11th February 10:47

[longblackcoat]

Snowboy said:

The Crack Fox said:

It's not often you see "reliable" and "Land Rover" in the same sentance. OK, I haven't owned one myself, but I think I'd be looking at Jap or Korean if I was out in the sticks with kids in the back where the AA are miles away.

If you've not owned one it's not really fair to coment.

A lot if brand new Landies had problems
They have loads of electronics and new tech and there were teething problems.
The D3's around now tend to be as reliable as any car of the same age.

The arguments about the big old Eastern trucks being more reliable are broadly true. But that's because they lack a lot if the tech that is in the newer cars.
It's much like arguing a hammer is more reliable than a nail gun.
They are great old trucks, but not many people would want a Hilux as their daily drive. (I speak from experience).

My Disco had two annoying failures - one was the turbo (at 165k miles or so) and the other was the torque converter a little while later. The turbo was, I suppose, an inevitability - they simply don't last forever - and I had a Passat suffer the same at about the same mileage, so I wasn't wholly surprised. Luckily I had a good independent who'd found a way of fitting it without removing the body from the chassis (the approved LR way) which reduced the cost a lot.

The torque converter seems to be more of an endemic issue - the car weighs 3 tonnes, so the TC takes some stick - and if you get 'hunting' i.e. revs rising and falling gently whilst on a steady cruise, then you may be in for TC issues. Lots of people on the LR forums swear that double-flushing the ATF and using (and I swear, this isn't made up) Doctor Tranny's Shudder Fix sorts the problem. I went for a proper reconditioning of the TC instead (not expensive).

I reckon it's probably the only seriously weak point of the car, and to be honest, any extremely heavy high-mileage auto might well suffer the same.

http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-230/Dr.+Tranny+Instant...


Edited to add - out of your price range, perhaps, but consider a Mercedes GL-Class. I'm running a GL420 and it's flipping great, though being a Mercedes, it's not cheap to run. The 320 starts from around £15k.

Edited by longblackcoat on Tuesday 11th February 10:49

[markmullen]

Merc R Class came as a 7 seat option after the initial 6 seat launch.

They're roomy, get one with rear entertainment and the children will be occupied and they're good to drive, a lot more like a car than a SUV.

[BenjiA]

How about a w163 ML? I've got a '99 430, and aside from the usual bits and pieces and the plastic trim falling off it is bombproof (6 kids and a dog see to that) spend 3 grand, have a contingecy fund and if it breaks badly you can get another. There is even the AMG 55 version which you can pick up for about £3k.

[mattman]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Rules for XC90 purchasing:

- NEVER a pre-facelift car (pre 2006).

- NEVER a T6 petrol.

- Only with FVSH or trusted independant garages

- As new as budget allows

Sorry - but what a load of tosh - we've had a 04 for 2 years and 30,000 miles and currently on 115k - apart from servicing at a local indy, costs have been a set of tyres, a fuel filter and handbrake mechanism - an the gearbox hasn't fallen out and it has 4 wheel drive....
Buy any car on condition and history, remember that you only read problems on the web - not many post how wonderful their car is or how they haven't had any problems...

All the cars quoted will have their own issues, if reliability is your primary concern buy from a main dealer with a decent warranty - something that the trade doesn't like such as a captiva provides great value for money compared to other "prestige" badges.
The XC90 is a great all rounder for us - rear seats can accomodate teenagers fine, huge boot when not in use, decent boot space when in use compared to some. Its very comfy does everything we have asked of it. On the down side, MPG isn't great at anywhere between 27-35 depending on usage, its not going to win any traffic light GP's and it has the turning circle of a small canal barge.