Why do garages think they can charge you for not fixing a pr
Discussion
Indpendent BMW garage. Charge £500 to replace a sensor to fix the problem.
They diagnosed the problem, no doubt based on plugging their machine in. And this was their solution.
Did not work.
Why on earth do they think they have any right to £500 for not providing a service? Pretty sure the contract with them was you fix my car and I pay you money. They haven't done their bit.
Now I have to waste hours and hours wrangling with them, then letter writing, then issuing small claim etc.
Wouldn't mind, but I specifically told the wife they will do this - they will just keep changing sensors and keep charging £££ without any qualms about whether or not it cures the problem.
Why the f
k don't women listen to their partners, but will believe any old st that a mechanic tells them??
Mod note: Please let the swear filter do its thing. Ta.
They diagnosed the problem, no doubt based on plugging their machine in. And this was their solution.
Did not work.
Why on earth do they think they have any right to £500 for not providing a service? Pretty sure the contract with them was you fix my car and I pay you money. They haven't done their bit.
Now I have to waste hours and hours wrangling with them, then letter writing, then issuing small claim etc.
Wouldn't mind, but I specifically told the wife they will do this - they will just keep changing sensors and keep charging £££ without any qualms about whether or not it cures the problem.
Why the f
k don't women listen to their partners, but will believe any old st that a mechanic tells them??Mod note: Please let the swear filter do its thing. Ta.
Edited by Bill on Saturday 15th February 19:09
Wife paid when she collected her car.
Months ago the same garage literally said they will just keep replacing sensors as the diagnostics spits out error codes; rather than confirming (you knwo, through using old fashioned diagnostic skills) that the sensor is faulty and not something else.
I replaced all the coils and plugs and the problem seemed to be rectified. Then I had a good mechanic that I trust look at it - he correctly diagnosed a faulty NOX sensor - which he replaced.
Old problems returned and wife, without telling me, just booked the car in to the first garage. £500 later, replaced sensors etc - and she just called me to say it is no different.
Part of wants to tell her to suck it up - I told her not to use them.
Just going to bee a week of hassle next week now.
Months ago the same garage literally said they will just keep replacing sensors as the diagnostics spits out error codes; rather than confirming (you knwo, through using old fashioned diagnostic skills) that the sensor is faulty and not something else.
I replaced all the coils and plugs and the problem seemed to be rectified. Then I had a good mechanic that I trust look at it - he correctly diagnosed a faulty NOX sensor - which he replaced.
Old problems returned and wife, without telling me, just booked the car in to the first garage. £500 later, replaced sensors etc - and she just called me to say it is no different.
Part of wants to tell her to suck it up - I told her not to use them.
Just going to bee a week of hassle next week now.
Same story for me at my local BMW main dealer. The CD player on my 3 series has a mind if its own, so you'll park up on track 3 and come back and it's halfway through track 1! I was trying to learn a language on CD at the time, and got fed up with stopping for fuel on lesson 24 and returning to the car on lesson 48 five minutes later. I asked the dealer to look at the problem and they said nothing was wrong and charged me £50. I politely complained and they were just rude to me. I haven't been back since. Still got the problem though...
750turbo said:
johnfm said:
Indpendent BMW garage. ...
Did not work....
Perhaps there is a reason that Main Dealers charge £xxx an hour?Did not work....
HAve you ever been to a main dealer? They are equally inept and often borderign on fraudulent with their ',,ooh, the discs and pads are nearing the time when they need replacing...
No, my gripe is any mechanic who doesn't apply common sense diagnostic skills to complement the output of an OBDII diagnostic machine.
Merely replacing sensors because 'the computer says so' is NOT what you pay for. You pay for 'reasonable care and skill'.
It's not just garages. I have just been through the same with our vets. Kept taking the do in week after week and the various vets were taking best guesses and charging £30 a time rather than doing any sensible diagnostics, nearly a month later still had a broken dog.
Final visit the vet actually listened to us rather than lookin at the dog and guessing and seems to have fixed it straight off. Bit miffed about having to pay for 3 visits and 3 sets of medication and putting up with a lame dog for a month when it could have all been solved with 1 of each if they actually listened first time. Had a half hour discussion with the owner who couldn't see my point of view and though everything was as it should be but eventually refunded 1 visits worth.
Final visit the vet actually listened to us rather than lookin at the dog and guessing and seems to have fixed it straight off. Bit miffed about having to pay for 3 visits and 3 sets of medication and putting up with a lame dog for a month when it could have all been solved with 1 of each if they actually listened first time. Had a half hour discussion with the owner who couldn't see my point of view and though everything was as it should be but eventually refunded 1 visits worth.
This again.
You don't pay for the fix, you pay for their time.
That they spend their(your) time on trying to fix is a reasonable expectation. But if you go into a garage demanding a 100% fix to an undiagnosed problem they'll tell you "sorry, we can't guarantee a fix. We can only try our best".
Which is all anyone can do with today's modern, complicated cars.
You pay your barrister by the hour, but he won't guarantee to win the case, will he?
You don't pay for the fix, you pay for their time.
That they spend their(your) time on trying to fix is a reasonable expectation. But if you go into a garage demanding a 100% fix to an undiagnosed problem they'll tell you "sorry, we can't guarantee a fix. We can only try our best".
Which is all anyone can do with today's modern, complicated cars.
You pay your barrister by the hour, but he won't guarantee to win the case, will he?
johnfm said:
Wife paid when she collected her car.
Months ago the same garage literally said they will just keep replacing sensors as the diagnostics spits out error codes; rather than confirming (you knwo, through using old fashioned diagnostic skills) that the sensor is faulty and not something else.
I replaced all the coils and plugs and the problem seemed to be rectified. Then I had a good mechanic that I trust look at it - he correctly diagnosed a faulty NOX sensor - which he replaced.
Old problems returned and wife, without telling me, just booked the car in to the first garage. £500 later, replaced sensors etc - and she just called me to say it is no different.
Part of wants to tell her to suck it up - I told her not to use them.
Just going to bee a week of hassle next week now.
What did they say when you complained; have they offered to take another look free of charge?Months ago the same garage literally said they will just keep replacing sensors as the diagnostics spits out error codes; rather than confirming (you knwo, through using old fashioned diagnostic skills) that the sensor is faulty and not something else.
I replaced all the coils and plugs and the problem seemed to be rectified. Then I had a good mechanic that I trust look at it - he correctly diagnosed a faulty NOX sensor - which he replaced.
Old problems returned and wife, without telling me, just booked the car in to the first garage. £500 later, replaced sensors etc - and she just called me to say it is no different.
Part of wants to tell her to suck it up - I told her not to use them.
Just going to bee a week of hassle next week now.
johnfm said:
Hahahaa
HAve you ever been to a main dealer? They are equally inept and often borderign on fraudulent with their ',,ooh, the discs and pads are nearing the time when they need replacing...
No, my gripe is any mechanic who doesn't apply common sense diagnostic skills to complement the output of an OBDII diagnostic machine.
Merely replacing sensors because 'the computer says so' is NOT what you pay for. You pay for 'reasonable care and skill'.
I am not even going to bother commenting on this or the other area I was quoted on.HAve you ever been to a main dealer? They are equally inept and often borderign on fraudulent with their ',,ooh, the discs and pads are nearing the time when they need replacing...
No, my gripe is any mechanic who doesn't apply common sense diagnostic skills to complement the output of an OBDII diagnostic machine.
Merely replacing sensors because 'the computer says so' is NOT what you pay for. You pay for 'reasonable care and skill'.
There are good and bad out there. The thing is people only ever post about the bad...
Why do I know this?
Over 30 years involved in the MT at various levels. I really do despair with some of the comments in here at times though.
I shall leave it at that as I do not wish to get drawn into yet another slagging match - Live is just too short to be honest.
Good luck OP.
SpeckledJim said:
This again.
You don't pay for the fix, you pay for their time.
That they spend their(your) time on trying to fix is a reasonable expectation. But if you go into a garage demanding a 100% fix to an undiagnosed problem they'll tell you "sorry, we can't guarantee a fix. We can only try our best".
Which is all anyone can do with today's modern, complicated cars.
You pay your barrister by the hour, but he won't guarantee to win the case, will he?
You pay for their skills - and you by the hour.You don't pay for the fix, you pay for their time.
That they spend their(your) time on trying to fix is a reasonable expectation. But if you go into a garage demanding a 100% fix to an undiagnosed problem they'll tell you "sorry, we can't guarantee a fix. We can only try our best".
Which is all anyone can do with today's modern, complicated cars.
You pay your barrister by the hour, but he won't guarantee to win the case, will he?
If it was just paying for their time, they would say " we have no idea what is wrong - what would you like us to change? It will take 2 hours and the part costs X".
But I am being charged for their skill and experience with this make of car.
If they say 'the machine that goes ping says 2 NOx sensor umber 2 isn't working. That is the problem' then they replace it and the problem is still there, they are not doing their job.
In any event, having now driven the car I can report that it is just the car's fault. Drove perfectly for me - there is clearly an intermittent ignition problem that is well known with these engines - BMW have produced a problem engine and washed their hands of it leaving owners facing £500-£1000 bills just to get them running reasonably.
Sadly, it wasn't until we had the issues that I discovered it is a common fault with the e90/92/93 4 cylinder engines.
whoami said:
What did they say when you complained; have they offered to take another look free of charge?
Only collected today - and they are now closed for the weekend.I have just driven the car - it is an intermittent fault - drives like a demon one minute - then the engine light will come on and it will run so rough it is dangerous pulling out into traffic.
The e90/92/93 engine has been beset with ignition problems since release - sadly I only discovered this months after she bought it.
Of course, according to her indoors it is ALL my fault for not finding out these cars have problems before she bought it!
750turbo said:
I am not even going to bother commenting on this or the other area I was quoted on.
There are good and bad out there. The thing is people only ever post about the bad...
Why do I know this?
Over 30 years involved in the MT at various levels. I really do despair with some of the comments in here at times though.
I shall leave it at that as I do not wish to get drawn into yet another slagging match - Live is just too short to be honest.
Good luck OP.
There is defintely good & bad.There are good and bad out there. The thing is people only ever post about the bad...
Why do I know this?
Over 30 years involved in the MT at various levels. I really do despair with some of the comments in here at times though.
I shall leave it at that as I do not wish to get drawn into yet another slagging match - Live is just too short to be honest.
Good luck OP.
I told my wife to take it to Andy Turner - a proper mechanic with the right kit and real skills and experience you can trust. She didn't.
Anyway - end of rant. The car is an expensive mistake that we will just have to live with.
johnfm said:
SpeckledJim said:
This again.
You don't pay for the fix, you pay for their time.
That they spend their(your) time on trying to fix is a reasonable expectation. But if you go into a garage demanding a 100% fix to an undiagnosed problem they'll tell you "sorry, we can't guarantee a fix. We can only try our best".
Which is all anyone can do with today's modern, complicated cars.
You pay your barrister by the hour, but he won't guarantee to win the case, will he?
You pay for their skills - and you by the hour.You don't pay for the fix, you pay for their time.
That they spend their(your) time on trying to fix is a reasonable expectation. But if you go into a garage demanding a 100% fix to an undiagnosed problem they'll tell you "sorry, we can't guarantee a fix. We can only try our best".
Which is all anyone can do with today's modern, complicated cars.
You pay your barrister by the hour, but he won't guarantee to win the case, will he?
If it was just paying for their time, they would say " we have no idea what is wrong - what would you like us to change? It will take 2 hours and the part costs X".
But I am being charged for their skill and experience with this make of car.
If they say 'the machine that goes ping says 2 NOx sensor umber 2 isn't working. That is the problem' then they replace it and the problem is still there, they are not doing their job.
In any event, having now driven the car I can report that it is just the car's fault. Drove perfectly for me - there is clearly an intermittent ignition problem that is well known with these engines - BMW have produced a problem engine and washed their hands of it leaving owners facing £500-£1000 bills just to get them running reasonably.
Sadly, it wasn't until we had the issues that I discovered it is a common fault with the e90/92/93 4 cylinder engines.
If they ignore 'the machine that goes ping' you'll say "why am I paying £90 an hour for fault-find to a guy with an expensive clever diagnostic machine when he isn't even using it!?"
The issue is 'composite' problems. A single problem, with cause(s) in multiple places.
If you want a price for a guaranteed fix, go and ask for one, see what they say. The price will be very high, if they give you one at all, because they have to plan to replace multiple parts to find a single problem.
johnfm said:
I replaced all the coils and plugs and the problem seemed to be rectified. Then I had a good mechanic that I trust look at it - he correctly diagnosed a faulty NOX sensor - which he replaced.
Old problems returned
So you didn't fix it and your trusted "good" mechanic didn't fix it either.Old problems returned
Why are you not going mad at him as well?
SpeckledJim said:
The dealer can't win, can they?
If they ignore 'the machine that goes ping' you'll say "why am I paying £90 an hour for fault-find to a guy with an expensive clever diagnostic machine when he isn't even using it!?"
The issue is 'composite' problems. A single problem, with cause(s) in multiple places.
If you want a price for a guaranteed fix, go and ask for one, see what they say. The price will be very high, if they give you one at all, because they have to plan to replace multiple parts to find a single problem.
As I posted, I would expect any skilled mechanic to use both a machine that goes ping AND other diagnostic methods to confirm and actually diagnose the problem.If they ignore 'the machine that goes ping' you'll say "why am I paying £90 an hour for fault-find to a guy with an expensive clever diagnostic machine when he isn't even using it!?"
The issue is 'composite' problems. A single problem, with cause(s) in multiple places.
If you want a price for a guaranteed fix, go and ask for one, see what they say. The price will be very high, if they give you one at all, because they have to plan to replace multiple parts to find a single problem.
I had one rather clever one tell me the plug gaps might be a bit excessive - based on some of the numbres he was getting out of his clever machine. Just a good, skilled, experienced mechanic using his nouse and understanding to do his job.
My issue is with those who see an error code and just replace a part without doing any further testing to confirm that the component is the problem or part of a larger problem.
That is their job.
JM said:
johnfm said:
I replaced all the coils and plugs and the problem seemed to be rectified. Then I had a good mechanic that I trust look at it - he correctly diagnosed a faulty NOX sensor - which he replaced.
Old problems returned
So you didn't fix it and your trusted "good" mechanic didn't fix it either.Old problems returned
Why are you not going mad at him as well?
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