Alcosense...any sense?
Discussion
Last night I was at a dinner party about 10 miles away. Eight people, most of whom got fairly s
tfaced. I was driving home, and so I had less than half a flute of champagne at 7:45 then about a third of a large wineglass of wine before 9pm. I actually checked this morning and my wine consumption was just under 250ml. I am 11 stone.
At the end of the evening, someone brought out an Alcosense meter to test themselves and of course it went off flashing red, as it did for most if the other guests. Who were quite clearly too drunk to drive and were either staying over or getting taxis home. So more out of curiosity than anything else, had a go, and breathed into the Alcosense machine, exactly as per instructions. It was about 12:15 by now.
According to this machine I was well over the limit. Having had 250ml of ordinary wine between 3.5 and 4.5 hours ago. Needless to say I was stone cold sober. I don't have much tolerance for alcohol and I'm not one of those people who can down six glasses and still appear perfectly sober. So when I say stone cold sober, I mean absolutely no effect whatsoever.
Of course I drove home.
So what experience of these Alcosense machines have you had? Are they a waste of time? Or is everything I've understood about alcohol wrong, and that much wine that long ago is excessive? Or are they so over-cautious as to be meaningless? I'd really appreciate some opinions.....
tfaced. I was driving home, and so I had less than half a flute of champagne at 7:45 then about a third of a large wineglass of wine before 9pm. I actually checked this morning and my wine consumption was just under 250ml. I am 11 stone.At the end of the evening, someone brought out an Alcosense meter to test themselves and of course it went off flashing red, as it did for most if the other guests. Who were quite clearly too drunk to drive and were either staying over or getting taxis home. So more out of curiosity than anything else, had a go, and breathed into the Alcosense machine, exactly as per instructions. It was about 12:15 by now.
According to this machine I was well over the limit. Having had 250ml of ordinary wine between 3.5 and 4.5 hours ago. Needless to say I was stone cold sober. I don't have much tolerance for alcohol and I'm not one of those people who can down six glasses and still appear perfectly sober. So when I say stone cold sober, I mean absolutely no effect whatsoever.
Of course I drove home.
So what experience of these Alcosense machines have you had? Are they a waste of time? Or is everything I've understood about alcohol wrong, and that much wine that long ago is excessive? Or are they so over-cautious as to be meaningless? I'd really appreciate some opinions.....
Edited by Sid's Dad on Sunday 16th February 11:13
I spent some time working abroad recently, and the factory policy where we were (not my company, a customer of ours) was that everyone had to be breathalysed on the way. The guys we were with were quite fond of a drink in the hotel, and most nights all of us got few a fair few pints. In the mornings, sometimes our reader would say we were over, but the one at the gate read nothing, a couple of times our one said we were fine then one of the guys would get caught at the gates, and sometimes they would both agree.
In other words, unless it's a police one, I think most of them are simply random number generators!
As an aside, after the policy of breathalysing people took hold, the local factory workers moved to smoking weed instead, as the machine didn't pick that up. That policy worked out well...
In other words, unless it's a police one, I think most of them are simply random number generators!
As an aside, after the policy of breathalysing people took hold, the local factory workers moved to smoking weed instead, as the machine didn't pick that up. That policy worked out well...
I'm inclined to think that such a "civilian use" device is going to err well on the side of caution. If you drank what you say you drank then there is no way you would be over the limit; I'd have no problem driving under such circumstances from either a legal or ethical point of view.
As an aside - my limit for drinking and driving nowadays is one pint of normal lager, but back in my youth (late 80s) my limit was 2.5 pints and back in those days cos (a) there were police and (b) I was a kid in a bright red souped up Fiesta I would get pulled fairly often. Never failed the breathalyser; these days this astonishes me (I was a 6'2" 11 stone streak of piss).
As an aside - my limit for drinking and driving nowadays is one pint of normal lager, but back in my youth (late 80s) my limit was 2.5 pints and back in those days cos (a) there were police and (b) I was a kid in a bright red souped up Fiesta I would get pulled fairly often. Never failed the breathalyser; these days this astonishes me (I was a 6'2" 11 stone streak of piss).
Quite a few years ago out of curiosity I bought one of these home test kits. After a particularly heavy Saturday night on the red wine and malt whisky I tested myself the next morning. I blew clear. I had the hangover from hell, felt dreadful and there was no way on earth I would have attempted to drive!
abbotsmike said:
As an aside, after the policy of breathalysing people took hold, the local factory workers moved to smoking weed instead, as the machine didn't pick that up. That policy worked out well...
I used to work in IT for one of the (if not the) biggest bus companies in the UK. There was a zero alcohol and drinking at work policy for the drivers, and because most of them were fat, thick dorks, this policy also applied to even the office staff.Well I often go to the pub for lunch and there was a computer program that was run by HR that would randomly pick people to be breathalysed (and drug swabbed). I had access to said program source, so I edited it and changed it round so that me and my lunchtime drinking buddies never got checked, but people we didn't like were much more likely to get checked. I then compiled the source and linked it to an image file (ie. one that could be run by HR). I then removed my edited source, so no evidence left behind
Happy risk free lunchtime drinking from then on
It was probably not able to purge the amount of alcohol that was in it from the drunk people having a go and therefore the integrity of the reading was compromised.
The police handheld devices are only a gauge which then leads onto the evidential machine at the police station which is huge in comparison and uses all sorts of amounts of liquids to purge the machine and ensure an unbiased reading.
The police handheld devices are only a gauge which then leads onto the evidential machine at the police station which is huge in comparison and uses all sorts of amounts of liquids to purge the machine and ensure an unbiased reading.
Far Cough said:
It was probably not able to purge the amount of alcohol that was in it from the drunk people having a go and therefore the integrity of the reading was compromised.
The police handheld devices are only a gauge which then leads onto the evidential machine at the police station which is huge in comparison and uses all sorts of amounts of liquids to purge the machine and ensure an unbiased reading.
This^^.The police handheld devices are only a gauge which then leads onto the evidential machine at the police station which is huge in comparison and uses all sorts of amounts of liquids to purge the machine and ensure an unbiased reading.
Even the police roadside devices aren't that accurate. Plenty of people blow over at the roadside and under back at the nick (and I dare say that plenty of people who should have blown over blow under).
And the police devices are many times more exepnsive than the civilian versions and subject to regular calibration.
So I certainly wouldn't trust any retail bought device except maybe to give an indication the morning after.
Utter non-sense!
I've got first hand evidence of (not overly) scientific experiments with a Police Draeger machine, properly calibrated, and a cheapo alcohol tester.
The cheap device was a free gift from a petrol station. I tried it out, having not drunk alcohol for several days (I Essex enough to be a binge drinker! In that I sometimes go for weeks without alcohol and then have a big blowout binge once a month or so) anyway I was in a non-drinking phase so I knew my system was totally clean. Additionally I am not diabetic and don't use alcoholic mouthwash or throat sprays. I hadn't had couch medicine so in effect nothing. The cheapy thing registered alcohol. Intrigued I tried it on other people. It did the same thing. I threw it away. Literally it did not work at all.
Now the Draeger, this is where things get interesting. The Draeger machine, police issue, doesn't really work either. I was a police officer, once upon a time, and a drunk girl asked if should could be breathalysed. She wasn't driving it was just for fun. So of course I obliged and she was under the limit. We spoke about it before the test and she said she was too drunk to even think about driving. She was a bit wobbly, in the happy drunk stage.
Another example involved a car that hit a kerb. It was wobbling about all over the place so we stopped it. The driver could barely stand up and smelt like a Whisky factory. I mean the man was plastered. So out comes the trusty Draeger and guess what? He was just about under. Not much, but under.
I know they're only two examples but the scientific validity of measuring alcohol on breath seems dubious to say the least.
I've got first hand evidence of (not overly) scientific experiments with a Police Draeger machine, properly calibrated, and a cheapo alcohol tester.
The cheap device was a free gift from a petrol station. I tried it out, having not drunk alcohol for several days (I Essex enough to be a binge drinker! In that I sometimes go for weeks without alcohol and then have a big blowout binge once a month or so) anyway I was in a non-drinking phase so I knew my system was totally clean. Additionally I am not diabetic and don't use alcoholic mouthwash or throat sprays. I hadn't had couch medicine so in effect nothing. The cheapy thing registered alcohol. Intrigued I tried it on other people. It did the same thing. I threw it away. Literally it did not work at all.
Now the Draeger, this is where things get interesting. The Draeger machine, police issue, doesn't really work either. I was a police officer, once upon a time, and a drunk girl asked if should could be breathalysed. She wasn't driving it was just for fun. So of course I obliged and she was under the limit. We spoke about it before the test and she said she was too drunk to even think about driving. She was a bit wobbly, in the happy drunk stage.
Another example involved a car that hit a kerb. It was wobbling about all over the place so we stopped it. The driver could barely stand up and smelt like a Whisky factory. I mean the man was plastered. So out comes the trusty Draeger and guess what? He was just about under. Not much, but under.
I know they're only two examples but the scientific validity of measuring alcohol on breath seems dubious to say the least.
The roadside device was always just an indicator - a screening device - & the evidential device was at the station. In my early days that was the blood test taken by the police surgeon & latterly breath on the Lion Intoximeter.
If it was apparent the driver was 3 sheets to the wind but the screening device showed nothing it didn't prevent an arrest under Section 4 - unfit through drink or drugs - followed by the station procedure.
Two bites at the cherry if you like.
On one occasion I did stop a vehicle that was bouncing its way along the kerb at walking speed & the driver all but fell out onto the road. No smell of intoxicants & breath test negative - completely clear. As he was unable to stand unsupported arrested S4. Blood tests duly taken & checked. Other than prescription drugs in what the lab described as 'therapeutic quantities' there was nothing else shown & NFA. Never did figure that one out!
If it was apparent the driver was 3 sheets to the wind but the screening device showed nothing it didn't prevent an arrest under Section 4 - unfit through drink or drugs - followed by the station procedure.
Two bites at the cherry if you like.
On one occasion I did stop a vehicle that was bouncing its way along the kerb at walking speed & the driver all but fell out onto the road. No smell of intoxicants & breath test negative - completely clear. As he was unable to stand unsupported arrested S4. Blood tests duly taken & checked. Other than prescription drugs in what the lab described as 'therapeutic quantities' there was nothing else shown & NFA. Never did figure that one out!
Edited by paintman on Sunday 16th February 16:24
Sid's Dad said:
Last night I was at a dinner party about 10 miles away. Eight people, most of whom got fairly stfaced. I was driving home, and so I had less than half a flute of champagne at 7:45 then about a third of a large wineglass of wine before 9pm. I actually checked this morning and my wine consumption was just under 250ml. I am 11 stone.
I'm not sure this adds up? If your glasses are like mine, a champagne flute is something like 125ml so half of that is about 60ml. And a large glass of wine is 250ml, so a third of that is about 80ml. I can't see how you could have got to 250ml?tfaced. I was driving home, and so I had less than half a flute of champagne at 7:45 then about a third of a large wineglass of wine before 9pm. I actually checked this morning and my wine consumption was just under 250ml. I am 11 stone.carl_w said:
I'm not sure this adds up? If your glasses are like mine, a champagne flute is something like 125ml so half of that is about 60ml. And a large glass of wine is 250ml, so a third of that is about 80ml. I can't see how you could have got to 250ml?
You say that, but the large wine glasses that a lot of people have at home are way bigger than a 250ml 'pub measure' large wine glass.Nigel Worc's said:
One of the posts refers to "not being diabetic".
Why would that matter ?
I am, I've never had any issues with being bagged, I can't think why it would make any difference, is there something I need to know ?
I keep thinking ketones, but if that's the case I think you'd have a bit more to be worried about...Why would that matter ?
I am, I've never had any issues with being bagged, I can't think why it would make any difference, is there something I need to know ?
Tom74 said:
Nigel Worc's said:
One of the posts refers to "not being diabetic".
Why would that matter ?
I am, I've never had any issues with being bagged, I can't think why it would make any difference, is there something I need to know ?
I keep thinking ketones, but if that's the case I think you'd have a bit more to be worried about...Why would that matter ?
I am, I've never had any issues with being bagged, I can't think why it would make any difference, is there something I need to know ?
te lolNigel Worc's said:
One of the posts refers to "not being diabetic".
Why would that matter ?
I am, I've never had any issues with being bagged, I can't think why it would make any difference, is there something I need to know ?
I'm no expert but I believe there's a potential situation where you can appear drunk 'n' disorderly but be completely sober. Whether this involves blowing a load of sugar-laden breath into the breathalyzer I'm not so sure.Why would that matter ?
I am, I've never had any issues with being bagged, I can't think why it would make any difference, is there something I need to know ?
carl_w said:
Nigel Worc's said:
One of the posts refers to "not being diabetic".
Why would that matter ?
I am, I've never had any issues with being bagged, I can't think why it would make any difference, is there something I need to know ?
I'm no expert but I believe there's a potential situation where you can appear drunk 'n' disorderly but be completely sober. Whether this involves blowing a load of sugar-laden breath into the breathalyzer I'm not so sure.Why would that matter ?
I am, I've never had any issues with being bagged, I can't think why it would make any difference, is there something I need to know ?
The condition you're aware off is known as a hypo, or low blood sugar, and the effects are similar to being drunk with the exception that your mind still works fine, you just cannot make yourself do exactly as you wish, or even say what you want to, and of course you can't trust your judgement, but trust me, you are fully aware.
I've never needed it yet, but I have a "dogtag" around my neck that I can whip out should I ever need to.
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